Anand Giridharadas

there's often a very, very concerted effort to break it up.

And so you see, I don't think it's an accident that in our era, as you've had rising inequality, as you've had some real power in

the Bernie Sanders of the world and Elizabeth Warrens of the world and AOCs of the world, you know, Zorans of the world, making a case that is appealing to people of all backgrounds about taking back their power, coming together in coalition.

You go back to Jesse Jackson, the Rainbow Coalition idea.

Anytime you have these ideas, those are also often the moments when you have white supremacy, as you said, doled out, right?

Because it's really then important

to get white people on the wrong end of power to believe in it.

Let me tell you something.

I have known Steve Bannon since 2011.

Wow.

I can't say I know him particularly well now, but we text.

I mean, frankly, he texts, like, everyone in the media.

It's important to me to maintain, like, one relationship in Trump world.

That's, like, my one relationship in Trump world, to try to understand certain things.

But I met him in 2011.

when he was not quite in this incarnation, nothing to do with Trump.

He liked something I'd written about how the real line in American life was no longer left versus right, but kind of up versus down.

And a lot of Steve Bannon sounds like Bernie Sanders, if you've ever listened to him.

Like, it's kind of confusing.

And he wasn't, as far as I knew, he wasn't a Republican, at least as far as I knew at the time.