Anand Giridharadas

It happens a lot.

If you take every instance where that happens, there's often, like, one guy who committed murder.

So, one guy.

But I think it would be foolish, and I think anybody looking at it would say...

took a lot of other things going on to make it possible for that guy to commit the murder.

And a lot of other people who didn't commit murder, who would never commit murder, who are not okay with murder, who maybe oppose the murder.

But a lot of people and systems and institutions and values are conspiring to make that murder possible.

And so if you shift back to this example, I think if you just had a

a pedophile in Jeffrey Epstein who wanted to procure 15-year-old girls and rape them, and that was all you had, I think it would have been very hard.

I think it would have been very difficult for him.

This is not an easy thing to pull off.

And so it's not just a Kathy Rumler thing.

who presumably had nothing to do with that burning heart of the story.

It's the fact that today, Kathy Rumler, as you and I speak, is still the chief lawyer at Goldman Sachs.

It's the fact that that association is not something that institutionally, Goldman Sachs, forget one individual, Goldman Sachs does not think today it's a problematic association.

The fact that not just some professor at Harvard or some professor at MIT was involved, but that those institutions, two of our, the world's most august learning institutions, essentially had this guy able to swim through their networks and be central to them.

I remember talking to women at the MIT Media Lab who were forced to give tours to Jeffrey Epstein at the Media Lab.

It's these law firms that before they were capitulating to Donald Trump were able, again, to be gamed by, again, not just individuals, but entire organizations that were, let's put it this way, not able to have an appropriate kind of histamine reaction.

to one of their lawyers being too close to such a depraved person.

Even when there were so many reasons to know he was a problem.