Anas Sarwar

So I think the short answer is yes, we will take that different approach because the opposite would be an absolute dereliction of duty and we'll not doing fair by a generation.

So you're right, Rory, Scotland had this history and tradition of education and it being an example to the rest of the UK and to the rest of the world.

But let's be honest about what's happening in far too many places in Scottish education right now.

Our literacy and numeracy rates have declined.

We're way behind in terms of where we need to be around science and technology.

Our proportion of children that are now classed as having some kind of additional support need has increased to 43% of pupils at school.

At the same time, the resources and classrooms have been pulled back.

So at the same time as ASN numbers have gone up to 43%, the number of ASN teachers has fallen by almost 20%.

And we have lack of discipline in our schools, partly with what happens with mobile phones, partly because we don't have...

In many places, permanent contracts for teachers, too many resources taken away and a curriculum for excellence that was introduced as a good concept, but actually does not promote excellence.

Instead, has seen the gap narrow between different social demographics more by the top coming down rather than raising everybody up.

And that fundamentally has to change.

So we will not scrap exams because I think you still need exams.

Of course you do.

But we have to change the culture that exists in our schools and the kind of education.

So how do we have mobile phones banned in our classrooms so people can concentrate on their education, not on their brains being polluted by dopamine hits that come from algorithms or social media feeds?

We can get discipline in the classrooms.

How do we get more classroom assistants around our teachers so we can make sure every kid in the class is getting the time they need?

And the reason why I think that's really important is because if you imagine a class of 30 plus with one teacher, no classroom assistant, if 43% of that class has some kind of additional support need, if there is distractions in the classroom because of the mobile phone, if there's really bad discipline and behavior,

Just think about those kids in that classroom who that little bit of nudge extra time with their teacher could be the difference between them getting into an apprenticeship, a college place, a university.