Andrew Gallimore

Because John Mack knew a lot about hallucinations and he knew that this wasn't easy to explain.

It wasn't easy.

People were describing the same kinds of experiences.

People who have no interaction with each other were describing exactly the same scenario.

Are you familiar with Jacques Vallée's work?

Yes, it is.

And I think what you're seeing is the same phenomenon that, as you say, is obviously how you describe it is influenced by your worldview.

You see the same thing with DMT.

So there's a tribe called the Yanomami in the Amazon and a very large indigenous group.

And they describe beings when they take these...

plant-based preparations that contain DMT.

Yopo is probably the most well-known.

It's like a snuff.

Have you heard of Yopo?

I've heard of it through McKenna, that they blow it up each other's nose.

Yeah, like that.

It's supposed to be horrible.

Horrible.

But when they take it, they describe seeing these beings, tiny beings that are lively, they're affable, they're colorful, they operate in great numbers, they're dancing and singing.

And these sound like...