Andrew Jarecki

Weirdly.

Well, yeah.

And by the way, in terms of being shot with your own gun, the contraband cell phones that are in the prison are all sold to the inmates in the prison by the guards.

As a matter of fact, when I started to discover just how much drugs were coming into the prison or this enormous cache of cell phones that were coming to the prison, I was talking to one of the prisoners and I said to him, where's all this coming from?

And he looked at me like I was an idiot and he said, you know we don't leave, right?

So clearly the people that come and go every day are the ones that are going out and getting drugs and going out and buying cell phones and bring them in.

So it's kind of incredibly ironic that the tool that the men are using to identify the crimes that are being committed by the ostensible law enforcement officers are sold to them by aforementioned law enforcement officers.

Well, first of all, I can tell from your description that everyone's going to run out and immediately go to HBO and watch this film so that they can see.

But it is extraordinary that the – and I have to say just I think one of the things that in your –

podcast that was so telling to me, and I really think it brings these stories together, is your postulate of the moral failure cascade.

You know, that you have a series of

small or larger or growing problems and events that happen.

And then one thing leads to another and it gets worse and worse and worse.

And I think, you know, people get used to it.

You know, they get to the point where they say, well, I don't know.

I mean, how many people are really

You know, I mean, some people are going to die, right?

Well, I don't know.

What if we have the deadliest prison system in America at some point?

Are we going to look at that and say, like, maybe we're doing something wrong?