Andrew Marantz

And I found this really actually confusing, but also instructive, because I didn't then leave and say, oh, Orban has lost. He has failed to consolidate control. I just thought, oh, what that means is maybe different than the notion I had in my head. So it doesn't mean...

And I found this really actually confusing, but also instructive, because I didn't then leave and say, oh, Orban has lost. He has failed to consolidate control. I just thought, oh, what that means is maybe different than the notion I had in my head. So it doesn't mean...

that in order to get rid of CEU, you have to raid the building, put a padlock on the door, and sell it to become a barracks or something. It means CEU is no longer a degree-granting institution in Budapest. So it's this kind of, I call it a Potemkin University. It's kind of hollowed out from within. Then I come back to the U.S.,

that in order to get rid of CEU, you have to raid the building, put a padlock on the door, and sell it to become a barracks or something. It means CEU is no longer a degree-granting institution in Budapest. So it's this kind of, I call it a Potemkin University. It's kind of hollowed out from within. Then I come back to the U.S.,

Trump is inaugurated, and he starts going after Columbia University, saying there are all these foreigners here, they have these strange foreign ideas, we don't like it, it's too woke, it's too anti-Semitic. Interestingly, the way they use the trope of the international Jew is kind of different in Hungary and in the U.S., but, you know, same, same.

Trump is inaugurated, and he starts going after Columbia University, saying there are all these foreigners here, they have these strange foreign ideas, we don't like it, it's too woke, it's too anti-Semitic. Interestingly, the way they use the trope of the international Jew is kind of different in Hungary and in the U.S., but, you know, same, same.

And then he starts levying these kind of informal attacks on Columbia University, but they don't take the form of an executive order that says Columbia University no longer exists. He doesn't send in the army to raid Columbia University. He says, because you're too woke and antisemitic, we are going to freeze these funds from you.

And then he starts levying these kind of informal attacks on Columbia University, but they don't take the form of an executive order that says Columbia University no longer exists. He doesn't send in the army to raid Columbia University. He says, because you're too woke and antisemitic, we are going to freeze these funds from you.

And I think if I had seen that through a lens of, is this Iran in 1979 or is this 1930s Germany, I would have said, oh, it's not happening here. But seeing it through the lens of competitive authoritarianism, I thought, okay, he's not going to get everything he wants. He's not going to wipe Columbia University off the map if that's even something he desires. But will he weaken it?

And I think if I had seen that through a lens of, is this Iran in 1979 or is this 1930s Germany, I would have said, oh, it's not happening here. But seeing it through the lens of competitive authoritarianism, I thought, okay, he's not going to get everything he wants. He's not going to wipe Columbia University off the map if that's even something he desires. But will he weaken it?

Will he chill people's speech? I think he already has succeeded at doing that. I mean, and just to put, you know, the felt sense kind of to close that loop. What it really felt like reporting from Columbia University a few weeks ago was just this pervasive sense of fear and confusion about where the lines actually were, where formal and informal power was.

Will he chill people's speech? I think he already has succeeded at doing that. I mean, and just to put, you know, the felt sense kind of to close that loop. What it really felt like reporting from Columbia University a few weeks ago was just this pervasive sense of fear and confusion about where the lines actually were, where formal and informal power was.

And that really reminded me of what it was like to be in Budapest. There's these kind of invisible lines that are being made up as you go along. So if you had told me on March 6th I'm afraid to leave my apartment because I think jackbooted thugs are going to show up in an unmarked van and stuff me in the van and I'll never see my family again.

And that really reminded me of what it was like to be in Budapest. There's these kind of invisible lines that are being made up as you go along. So if you had told me on March 6th I'm afraid to leave my apartment because I think jackbooted thugs are going to show up in an unmarked van and stuff me in the van and I'll never see my family again.

And then when my wife asks where I'm going, they say, we're taking him somewhere because we didn't like his political speech. See you later. I would have said, you're insane. This is the United States of America. What are you talking about? There's no law anywhere that says they can do that.

And then when my wife asks where I'm going, they say, we're taking him somewhere because we didn't like his political speech. See you later. I would have said, you're insane. This is the United States of America. What are you talking about? There's no law anywhere that says they can do that.

If you told me that on March 9th, after they did that to Mahmoud Khalil, I would have said, yeah, you're right. You shouldn't go outside.

If you told me that on March 9th, after they did that to Mahmoud Khalil, I would have said, yeah, you're right. You shouldn't go outside.

Well, I think that's one of them. I think the disappearing of political prisoners for squarely protected political speech, that's more out of the Bukele or Duterte or Pinochet playbook than out of the Orban playbook. And so it's a patchwork, right? It's sort of, it's not all of one or all of the other. I mean, the Hungarians I spoke to were like, whoa, what is that?

Well, I think that's one of them. I think the disappearing of political prisoners for squarely protected political speech, that's more out of the Bukele or Duterte or Pinochet playbook than out of the Orban playbook. And so it's a patchwork, right? It's sort of, it's not all of one or all of the other. I mean, the Hungarians I spoke to were like, whoa, what is that?