Andrew Marantz

Let's say he loses parts of his coalition. Let's say he loses Musk. That would be a big blow to him. But, you know, you've written about Shemeshka in Hungary out of it. Hungarian words are famously hard to say, so I'm sure I'm butchering that. But, you know, the Musk before Musk oligarch who was one of Orban's biggest allies, and then he lost him and he became an opponent.

Let's say he loses parts of his coalition. Let's say he loses Musk. That would be a big blow to him. But, you know, you've written about Shemeshka in Hungary out of it. Hungarian words are famously hard to say, so I'm sure I'm butchering that. But, you know, the Musk before Musk oligarch who was one of Orban's biggest allies, and then he lost him and he became an opponent.

And that was a blow to Orban, but it was not at all fatal to him. So I could totally see a story where... The coalition is big enough and durable enough that it can withstand things like losing the midterms. And it's already done things. I mean, you talk about the Supreme Court. We're already in a timeline where they wouldn't give Merrick Garland a hearing.

And that was a blow to Orban, but it was not at all fatal to him. So I could totally see a story where... The coalition is big enough and durable enough that it can withstand things like losing the midterms. And it's already done things. I mean, you talk about the Supreme Court. We're already in a timeline where they wouldn't give Merrick Garland a hearing.

You know, again, it's like if you heard about this happening in another country, you'd say it doesn't sound super 100 percent democratic to me to not seat your opponent and then seat one of your own people on the Supreme Court. One thing we know about John Roberts is he really wants to seem even-handed.

You know, again, it's like if you heard about this happening in another country, you'd say it doesn't sound super 100 percent democratic to me to not seat your opponent and then seat one of your own people on the Supreme Court. One thing we know about John Roberts is he really wants to seem even-handed.

So if you take a bunch of things to the Supreme Court that are just facially unconstitutional, they're not going to hand you down smack-down 9-0 decisions every time.

So if you take a bunch of things to the Supreme Court that are just facially unconstitutional, they're not going to hand you down smack-down 9-0 decisions every time.

Well, I would say it kind of is changing the structures of American life in the sense that it's how you get a new paradigm. So part of what FDR was doing there was not just politics as usual. It was battering his way to a new political order. So I agree that the biggest challenge to all this is—and someone, a conservative legal scholar, said this to me while reporting the piece—

Well, I would say it kind of is changing the structures of American life in the sense that it's how you get a new paradigm. So part of what FDR was doing there was not just politics as usual. It was battering his way to a new political order. So I agree that the biggest challenge to all this is—and someone, a conservative legal scholar, said this to me while reporting the piece—

If someone were doing this on behalf of policies you like, how much would it bother you? I think that is the hardest question to answer. And we can sit here and say we would be perfectly consistent and non-hypocritical, and who knows if that's true. One key point, though, is that, yes, you work things out in the courts, you challenge the courts. The fact that that is...

If someone were doing this on behalf of policies you like, how much would it bother you? I think that is the hardest question to answer. And we can sit here and say we would be perfectly consistent and non-hypocritical, and who knows if that's true. One key point, though, is that, yes, you work things out in the courts, you challenge the courts. The fact that that is...

an option that's available to you, to me, doesn't put it outside the realm of competitive authoritarianism. If Trump is able to break through to a new political paradigm and get competitive authoritarianism, I think that is part of how he will do it. He'll throw a bunch of stuff to the courts that says the 14th Amendment doesn't say what it says.

an option that's available to you, to me, doesn't put it outside the realm of competitive authoritarianism. If Trump is able to break through to a new political paradigm and get competitive authoritarianism, I think that is part of how he will do it. He'll throw a bunch of stuff to the courts that says the 14th Amendment doesn't say what it says.

And I know you said discrimination against trans people was illegal, but I'm going to do it. And on and on and on and on and on. And if they let him get one out of those 10 things, that is actually how you get competitive authoritarianism. You throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and see what sticks. And I agree that he's doing it in this flagrant, blatant way.

And I know you said discrimination against trans people was illegal, but I'm going to do it. And on and on and on and on and on. And if they let him get one out of those 10 things, that is actually how you get competitive authoritarianism. You throw a bunch of stuff at the wall and see what sticks. And I agree that he's doing it in this flagrant, blatant way.

It could be incompetence and impulsiveness. It could be actually that that's part of the strategy. But either way... I don't think he's going to get it by amending the Constitution. I don't think he's going to get it by indefinite martial law. I think if he gets it, it'll be through stuff like this.

It could be incompetence and impulsiveness. It could be actually that that's part of the strategy. But either way... I don't think he's going to get it by amending the Constitution. I don't think he's going to get it by indefinite martial law. I think if he gets it, it'll be through stuff like this.

Look, I mean, I think what we can agree on is that every case is different. we're not the Hungarian case. We can't use a two-thirds majority to rewrite the constitution. But again, you know, this is what I mean about kind of writing to the end of the story instead of seeing what's in front of our nose. Netanyahu didn't win the fight over the judicial reform. Orban loses fights all the time.

Look, I mean, I think what we can agree on is that every case is different. we're not the Hungarian case. We can't use a two-thirds majority to rewrite the constitution. But again, you know, this is what I mean about kind of writing to the end of the story instead of seeing what's in front of our nose. Netanyahu didn't win the fight over the judicial reform. Orban loses fights all the time.