Andrew Peach

Listeners will remember we've had the row over sending asylum seekers to Rwanda and the UK.

The ECHR in Strasbourg blocked that temporarily, and then the scheme never happened because of the British general election.

More recently, in May, nine EU nations led by Italy and Denmark effectively signed an open letter to the courts and to the institutions in Strasbourg saying we need reform because we feel that the way the laws, the rights have been interpreted in the moment are standing in the way of us deporting criminals.

They're standing in the way of common sense.

And that's eroding confidence in politics and the law.

The month after that, the UK effectively waded in, sending a minister to Strasbourg to deliver a speech saying you must evolve, otherwise this entire project could potentially one day die.

So these messages have been sent very, very strongly to Strasbourg.

So last week I went to see Alan Berset.

He's the head of the Council of Europe, effectively the political guardian of these human rights laws in Strasbourg.

And he told me that countries shouldn't abandon this landmark agreement.

I am ready, absolutely ready and really open to engage in all political discussions and let us engage on migration issues and to see what we need to address and maybe to change.

We have two major parties in the UK, the Conservatives and Reform, who say that they think the best thing to do is to pull out of the European Convention.

To achieve what?

They say they can take control back.

The opposite is true.

And what I see is more the risk to be a bit isolated.

The question is with UK or without.

I prefer to have with UK because the experience that you have and the importance of the country would make us highly legitimate to be part of the discussion and to take an influence.

Alain Berset from the Council of Europe talking to Dominic Khashoggi.

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