Andrew Ross Sorkin

I think that you should be able to see, though, why in the context of sending illegal immigrants to an El Salvador in prison and claiming to be unable for diplomatic reasons to bring them back. The prospect of then saying, and we'd like to send U.S.

I think that you should be able to see, though, why in the context of sending illegal immigrants to an El Salvador in prison and claiming to be unable for diplomatic reasons to bring them back. The prospect of then saying, and we'd like to send U.S.

citizens to that prison, would raise some concerns about how the administration uses the immigration powers that you think it should have under arguable wartime conditions. Again, right? Regardless of the particulars of a case, it just seems like you are setting up a machinery –

citizens to that prison, would raise some concerns about how the administration uses the immigration powers that you think it should have under arguable wartime conditions. Again, right? Regardless of the particulars of a case, it just seems like you are setting up a machinery –

that people of good faith who are not hostile to your policies would reasonably regard as dangerous to particular people who are caught up in the system. That's all, right?

that people of good faith who are not hostile to your policies would reasonably regard as dangerous to particular people who are caught up in the system. That's all, right?

In a context where the administration

In a context where the administration

I raised the war on terror parallel in our conversation for a reason. I think that it is a very common phenomenon for politicians with sincere religious convictions

I raised the war on terror parallel in our conversation for a reason. I think that it is a very common phenomenon for politicians with sincere religious convictions

to end up in a place where they feel like they have obligations to the safety of the country and its common good, as certainly the George W. Bush administration felt after 9-11, that leads them to set up systems that are designed to further a particular end and but that are exposed to abuses. This is not a novel story in American history. It's not a novel story in politics.

to end up in a place where they feel like they have obligations to the safety of the country and its common good, as certainly the George W. Bush administration felt after 9-11, that leads them to set up systems that are designed to further a particular end and but that are exposed to abuses. This is not a novel story in American history. It's not a novel story in politics.

I think the vice president's response, he's arguing that while there may be similar risks right now, what critics and skeptics see as serious abuses aren't actually happening. And

I think the vice president's response, he's arguing that while there may be similar risks right now, what critics and skeptics see as serious abuses aren't actually happening. And

I do think that the Supreme Court has already imposed limits on the Trump administration's ability to do these kind of speedy to an El Salvadoran prison deportations that hopefully limits how much moral risk the administration's policy creates in the future. claims that there have been no abuses or no serious abuses would hold up. I think that's just not the way the world usually works.

I do think that the Supreme Court has already imposed limits on the Trump administration's ability to do these kind of speedy to an El Salvadoran prison deportations that hopefully limits how much moral risk the administration's policy creates in the future. claims that there have been no abuses or no serious abuses would hold up. I think that's just not the way the world usually works.

So a couple times in this interview, you've said something to me to the effect of, you know, I know New York Times readers hate me or I know New York Times readers don't like me and so on. And I want you to explain what you're up to here. I'm a New York Times columnist, and this is a New York Times podcast.

So a couple times in this interview, you've said something to me to the effect of, you know, I know New York Times readers hate me or I know New York Times readers don't like me and so on. And I want you to explain what you're up to here. I'm a New York Times columnist, and this is a New York Times podcast.

And at various moments in the interview, the vice president commented on the fact that he expects that most New York Times readers and listeners are not likely to agree with him and so on. And on the one hand, that's a fair characterization, probably. On the other hand, I do think that there are people who read the New York Times, listen to the daily news.

And at various moments in the interview, the vice president commented on the fact that he expects that most New York Times readers and listeners are not likely to agree with him and so on. And on the one hand, that's a fair characterization, probably. On the other hand, I do think that there are people who read the New York Times, listen to the daily news.