Andrew Sage

And then this is also part of a broader conversation about population where you have the immigration concerns as a political flashpoint.

And because a lot of wealthy countries are

because of their population decline, are starting to rely more on immigrants to keep their economies going.

But as a flip side, that tends to fuel backlash from the far-right groups who are able to frame it as a threat to national identity.

And because the system of the state and capitalism is not interested in actually taking care of people, those immigrants become a very useful scapegoat.

You know, obviously I'm in support of people moving and living wherever they want to move and live as they please.

I don't believe in borders, especially as the climate consequences are hitting those of us in the global south first.

But I also am not a fan of the way that some progressives end up talking about immigration, where they act as if

you know, the Global South is like a population bank that wealthy countries could tap into and, you know, pull population from regardless of the consequences on the home countries of these people.

You know, it's like, let immigrants come and I'm all for that.

But then it's also like,

Your, your government is destabilizing their governments, your, your, your system, your economic system and the global economic system is making life in those countries unlivable.

And I think the priority also needs to be on dealing with that issue and not just shrugging and saying, well, you know, at least immigrants are able to help our economy stay afloat, even as their countries languish and suffer.

So to kind of wrap things up, where does this all leave us?

You know, for centuries we feared having too many people and now we're starting to fear having too few people and both anxieties are shaping policy, fueling conspiracy theories and sparking culture wars.

And whether the future holds overcrowded cities or ghost towns really depends on the direction our politics, economy, culture and urban designs take.

On the next episode, I'm going to be talking about the ideas around population, the pro-natalists and the anti-natalists.

But until then, I've been Andrew Sage here with Mia Wong on It Could Happen Here.

Peace.

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