Andy MacMillan

And I think if we focus on that, all the expansion comes

with it.

And so one of my big goals to continue to see improvement on our gross retention number, and I think that even drives net retention higher.

So we're a company that believes net retention is really important to a SaaS company, but I'm a CEO that believes the focus of a SaaS company should be gross retention, not net, and that that is an even more upside.

Yeah, we're at about 84% gross retention.

That's not horrible either.

Yeah, especially because we still have a large number of SMB customers.

I think that segment is just naturally tougher.

There's more acquisition, expansion, companies that go out of business.

SMB is just naturally a tougher space, whether you're Salesforce or you're a tiny SMB SaaS company.

Always have a challenge in the SMB segment than in other places.

But I think that's a really big opportunity.

And that's something that I have found repeatedly.

When I speak at SaaS conferences and things like that, one of my big areas as a CEO is to think about the fact that you don't want to incent your post-sales team on net retention.

Let your sales team go sell the upsell.

They're the sellers.

You want a post-sales team that gets up every day and just says, my job is to make customers successful.

My job is to make customers get value from what we're doing.

And so we, frankly, haven't been lined up that way.

We've made that change since I've joined, and yet we still have very good gross retention numbers.