Anita Arnand

She says, you know, look, I love him.

I love him, I do.

And that even though their relationship is illicit, she no longer wants Thorne anywhere around her.

And he loves her and he tries to warn her about the dangers to her honour and reputation.

And she writes back to him, no, no, no more, man, no more.

For God's sake, say no more.

Do you think for a moment that after having been the lover of General Bolivar for seven years, I would choose to be the wife of the father, the son or the Holy Ghost or all three?

I love him.

Yeah, I wish you wouldn't call him my hero.

He is the subject of these podcasts.

He'll get quite carried away.

I think it's interesting.

Why would you not want to know about Bolivar with all that's going on in Venezuela?

I'm very keen to know about it.

My goodness.

I mean, it sort of seems kind of pivotal to understand the past, to understand why Latin America and Venezuela in particular is where it is.

So back in 1822, previously on this conversation, Manuela, as well as becoming a lover, becomes Bolivar's personal archivist and she's sort of like the only one who has access to all of his private papers and she keeps him in order and makes sure he is where, much like Olive, your wife, making sure he turns up to things in time.

But it also is somebody who bounces his ideas off as well, you know, sort of strategies, invasions, he trusts her.

with his life.

And in September 1828, that faith in her pays off.