Anita Arnand

I think you can a bit actually, because there is this very Latin American concept of caudismo, which is like a string of militaristic strongmen who govern these parts of Latin America since independence, that they will not be questioned, they will not be argued with, and democracy is a bit of a hindrance to that.

Marquez says as much in his novel.

And look at all of the people who followed, right?

They emulate that idea of you need to be a strong man, president liberator, not just liberator.

And like I said, 60 military dictatorships in Latin America during the 20th century, that number tells you as much as you need to know.

Absolutely right.

And the fact that he wants the tomb to be cleaned and Manuela to be put by his side.

And he talks about Bolivar a lot during his autocracy in Venezuela.

All of that lends itself.

It is strange and it's a checkered legacy, I think.

Well, I mean, you could say that actually a lack of accountability and democracy is the death knell eventually of any civilization.

I certainly think so.

Maduro also, you know, more recently, Maduro, he's gone missing.

Oh, America's got him fame.

He claimed to follow Bolivarian principles.

You know, he says, actually, that's what we are.

We are Bolivars, sons of Bolivar.

And hyperinflation...

under Chavez, rendered the currency worthless.

You saw contraction of GDP, you saw malnutrition, hospitals struggling.