Anita Arnand

I was just going to say, fleeing the country since 2014.

A quarter of the population, William,

What he wrote actually was interesting.

Bolivar said, you know, we will be such a disaster zone that no European is going to want us.

What he didn't reckon on was the oil reserves and the fact that America wants those very, very much.

You know, here we are right now.

You know, we've sort of got...

Of a new imperialism because actually what happened was not great.

So if you don't have a strong country with a strong sense of itself and you have these dictators who are in charge, it is easier for somebody like Trump to say, look at me, I am the liberator.

Also, you've got oil I'm quite interested in, but I'm liberating you.

But also you've got the oil that you're not using and I'm the liberator, you know, all of that.

Very, very, very sad.

I mean, you've got, you know, not even sort of hiding it.

You know, you've got sort of US Secretary of Energy Chris Wright in Venezuela talking about how they're going to extract all this oil and use it.

Well, it's an ongoing story.

As we said to lovely Daniel Imavar, who talked about America's hidden empire.

It's not so hidden anymore.

Maybe you need to retitle and add a few chapters.

It's a little out of date.

Until the next time we meet, it's goodbye from me, Anita Arnon.