Anita Arnon

Because what he sees is that these places, despite his vision that once conquered, they should just do it.

Why aren't they doing it?

But the relationship when he comes back to Colombia, the relationship between Colombia and Venezuela is not good.

Santander is not happy.

And he's sitting in Colombia going, this is not in my name, mate.

This is not what I want.

And he's falling out with a Venezuelan leader.

What's the...

national characteristics, pride in the fact that a Peruvian feels Peruvian, or an Ecuadorian feels Ecuadorian, or indeed right on his backyard, a Colombian may not want to feel like a Venezuelan.

So you've got a revolt that ensues with this leader, the Venezuelan leader, future president in fact, José Antonio Páez, who revolts against Santander because Santander is sitting there in the capital trying to hold it all together.

He's planning to secede from Gran Colombia.

Bolivar goes to Paez and instead of overthrowing him and killing him for having an opinion, he says, I'll leave you, but you submit to my authority.

You just do it.

I don't care what you think.

You just do it.

Temporarily, this resolves the issue, but there is now this

problem where people are saying, yes, okay, for now.

Santander, who already is trying to fight for a vision that he thought he shared completely with Bolivar, but what Bolivar is doing with these autocratic setups, particularly in Peru, particularly saying, I am the dictator of Peru, but Peru can stay outside.

This is nothing that Santander has stayed in this for.

So there is a rift between these two.