Anita Arnon

So I think that's so interesting.

I think it's such an important point because this is what actually puts him in a collision course with Miranda, who remember it was his brother in arms because Miranda does believe in that.

Miranda does believe that people should have a say in this new world that we are creating for them, whereas Bolivar is not.

So just getting back to the slavery thing, even though he's been exposed to these Enlightenment thoughts, when he's with his own Creole allies, the ones who are running the other juntas and who have the power, he tones down.

anything he might have thought about liberating the enslaved population.

If you give him the benefit of the doubt, why did he not speak out about ending slavery?

You were talking about pragmatism before.

The other reason, back to the battle with the Spanish, the reason that there was a great difficulty in pushing them back.

The command structure is a mess.

It's diabolical.

You've got every man jack who thinks they should be in charge and nobody there to tell them, actually, you know what?

It would be much, much better if we followed that guy.

They all think they're the guy.

And for the others in Venezuela, particularly the rural areas...

This feels like a big city swinger revolt.

You know, these are the guys with the canes and the nice suits who are making all the noise.

This is a city.

It's nothing to do with us.

So beyond the big cities like Caracas, there's limited support and appetite for this kind of chaos.

Unless you're promising something like freedom.