Anna

Okay, let's not round down. Let's say you've been a marriage and family therapist for 42 years. How do couples end up in front of you? I have to be honest, I don't really feel like a guy would be calling you up and being like, hi, I need help with my marriage. So how do people end up in your office?

And as I know from reading your work, shame-based people in a relationship are often women in a relationship, and then the grandiose-based people are often men. Is that right?

And as I know from reading your work, shame-based people in a relationship are often women in a relationship, and then the grandiose-based people are often men. Is that right?

The toxic individualism, yeah.

The toxic individualism, yeah.

I actually read that line in your book, and I was hoping you'd say it out loud because it's just too good. Outrun your rectum. Perfect. Put that on a shirt, unless you have.

I actually read that line in your book, and I was hoping you'd say it out loud because it's just too good. Outrun your rectum. Perfect. Put that on a shirt, unless you have.

You write about that process in, I think it's your first book, which was about male depression. That book is really fascinating. You write how male depression, as you describe it, often comes from these unacknowledged feelings and is often the root cause of many problems in marriages, in families. Right.

You write about that process in, I think it's your first book, which was about male depression. That book is really fascinating. You write how male depression, as you describe it, often comes from these unacknowledged feelings and is often the root cause of many problems in marriages, in families. Right.

I want to talk more about that, but first I want to know more about why you decided to focus a lot of your practice on working with men specifically. And just to start at the beginning, when you were growing up, what did you think it meant to be a man?

I want to talk more about that, but first I want to know more about why you decided to focus a lot of your practice on working with men specifically. And just to start at the beginning, when you were growing up, what did you think it meant to be a man?

When he told you this story... Did that change anything about how you saw your father? Did it shift something in your understanding? Did it make you understand something about him?

When he told you this story... Did that change anything about how you saw your father? Did it shift something in your understanding? Did it make you understand something about him?

Your father said that about his father.

Your father said that about his father.

Because it reminded him of his own father?

Because it reminded him of his own father?

The way that you opened up space, as it were, encouraged your father to share, was that sort of the beginnings of Terry Real's approach to therapy with men? Like, did you seed anything in that conversation that we now see in your practice today?

The way that you opened up space, as it were, encouraged your father to share, was that sort of the beginnings of Terry Real's approach to therapy with men? Like, did you seed anything in that conversation that we now see in your practice today?

Whoa.