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Anne Applebaum

๐Ÿ‘ค Speaker
See mentions of this person in podcasts
2965 total appearances

Appearances Over Time

Podcast Appearances

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

And so all of those neighbors, the reason NATO expanded following the Cold War was because those countries felt under direct threat and they were not wrong. So if you look at the history, it goes the other way around. So people were clamoring to join NATO. Why did Poland want to join NATO? Why did Romania want to join NATO? Why did Lithuania want to join NATO?

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

They wanted to join NATO because they were already felt under threat from Russia. So in that same period of time, there were gestures made to Russia. There was a NATO-Russian partnership that was created. Russia was invited to join the G7, which for a while was the G8. Russia was invited to a whole series of other institutions.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

They wanted to join NATO because they were already felt under threat from Russia. So in that same period of time, there were gestures made to Russia. There was a NATO-Russian partnership that was created. Russia was invited to join the G7, which for a while was the G8. Russia was invited to a whole series of other institutions.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

They wanted to join NATO because they were already felt under threat from Russia. So in that same period of time, there were gestures made to Russia. There was a NATO-Russian partnership that was created. Russia was invited to join the G7, which for a while was the G8. Russia was invited to a whole series of other institutions.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

There was an idea that Russia and Russia was, of course, part of the WTO. But there was an idea that Russia would be wrapped into a series of institutions and would through trade and through interaction would eventually cease to be hostile, you know, and then maybe, you know, down the road, there was even talk of Russia eventually being in NATO.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

There was an idea that Russia and Russia was, of course, part of the WTO. But there was an idea that Russia would be wrapped into a series of institutions and would through trade and through interaction would eventually cease to be hostile, you know, and then maybe, you know, down the road, there was even talk of Russia eventually being in NATO.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

There was an idea that Russia and Russia was, of course, part of the WTO. But there was an idea that Russia would be wrapped into a series of institutions and would through trade and through interaction would eventually cease to be hostile, you know, and then maybe, you know, down the road, there was even talk of Russia eventually being in NATO.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

That now seems crazy, but that was a moment of high optimism in the 90s and 2000s when that felt possible. And so the question that you have to ask is why didn't it happen? And why did the Russians reject that path? And why were their neighbors so frightened of them? The U.S. was not the power that wanted to expand NATO. It was coming from those states. They wanted protection.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

That now seems crazy, but that was a moment of high optimism in the 90s and 2000s when that felt possible. And so the question that you have to ask is why didn't it happen? And why did the Russians reject that path? And why were their neighbors so frightened of them? The U.S. was not the power that wanted to expand NATO. It was coming from those states. They wanted protection.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

That now seems crazy, but that was a moment of high optimism in the 90s and 2000s when that felt possible. And so the question that you have to ask is why didn't it happen? And why did the Russians reject that path? And why were their neighbors so frightened of them? The U.S. was not the power that wanted to expand NATO. It was coming from those states. They wanted protection.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

They wanted to be part of Western clubs. They wanted to integrate with Europe. And they were afraid of Russia. And they've been afraid of Russia since the 90s. So people who don't know the history of NATO expansion and who don't understand the sequence of events and why it happened... are accepting a Russian narrative about why it happened.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

They wanted to be part of Western clubs. They wanted to integrate with Europe. And they were afraid of Russia. And they've been afraid of Russia since the 90s. So people who don't know the history of NATO expansion and who don't understand the sequence of events and why it happened... are accepting a Russian narrative about why it happened.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

They wanted to be part of Western clubs. They wanted to integrate with Europe. And they were afraid of Russia. And they've been afraid of Russia since the 90s. So people who don't know the history of NATO expansion and who don't understand the sequence of events and why it happened... are accepting a Russian narrative about why it happened.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

It did not happen because those states were aggressive towards Russia. It happened because they were afraid of Russia. The other thing you need to know is that until 2014, there were no U.S. troops and very few NATO facilities of any kind in Eastern Europe. There was no expansion. There was no movement of troops into Poland.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

It did not happen because those states were aggressive towards Russia. It happened because they were afraid of Russia. The other thing you need to know is that until 2014, there were no U.S. troops and very few NATO facilities of any kind in Eastern Europe. There was no expansion. There was no movement of troops into Poland.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

It did not happen because those states were aggressive towards Russia. It happened because they were afraid of Russia. The other thing you need to know is that until 2014, there were no U.S. troops and very few NATO facilities of any kind in Eastern Europe. There was no expansion. There was no movement of troops into Poland.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

I mean, none of that happened until the invasion of Crimea, which really scared people for the first time. And people said, right, the Russians are serious. They could really invade and we need to be protected. Even then, a lot of it was pretty superficial. Even up until 2022, when the second full-scale invasion of Ukraine began, there was still pretty scarce NATO facilities in Eastern Europe.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

I mean, none of that happened until the invasion of Crimea, which really scared people for the first time. And people said, right, the Russians are serious. They could really invade and we need to be protected. Even then, a lot of it was pretty superficial. Even up until 2022, when the second full-scale invasion of Ukraine began, there was still pretty scarce NATO facilities in Eastern Europe.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

I mean, none of that happened until the invasion of Crimea, which really scared people for the first time. And people said, right, the Russians are serious. They could really invade and we need to be protected. Even then, a lot of it was pretty superficial. Even up until 2022, when the second full-scale invasion of Ukraine began, there was still pretty scarce NATO facilities in Eastern Europe.

The Jordan Harbinger Show
1117: Anne Applebaum | Inside The Fortune 500 of Modern Dictatorships

I mean, that is now beginning to change. I mean, you've now had a big military buildup in several of the eastern states, including Poland. but also others. But that is coming because people are afraid of Russia. They are afraid of being invaded. They're afraid of their own cities being destroyed. Some are under economic pressure from Russia.