Anne Applebaum

It's also these guys from Heritage who are also talking about threatening and harassing civil servants and federal public servants. So it's not just him. He's just the sort of unexpected piece of the story. I do think they are going to continue trying to capture the civil service. They will try to capture the courts, put people in the courts who are not just...

not conservative in the old sense, not like, I don't know, constitutionalists, but actually much more radical. That's what I would expect, that we get really radical judges who are there to do Trump's bidding, not to respect the Constitution in a conservative way. I think that's very possible. And I also think the, you said it already, the attempts to

not conservative in the old sense, not like, I don't know, constitutionalists, but actually much more radical. That's what I would expect, that we get really radical judges who are there to do Trump's bidding, not to respect the Constitution in a conservative way. I think that's very possible. And I also think the, you said it already, the attempts to

not conservative in the old sense, not like, I don't know, constitutionalists, but actually much more radical. That's what I would expect, that we get really radical judges who are there to do Trump's bidding, not to respect the Constitution in a conservative way. I think that's very possible. And I also think the, you said it already, the attempts to

control and dictate and use different kinds of levers of influence over the media and over public conversation, that that's going to get much worse as well. So in that sense, we're already, it's not just Orban, by the way. I mean, this is what Hugo Chavez did in Venezuela. I think it's important for people to understand this is neither a right-wing nor a left-wing assault.

control and dictate and use different kinds of levers of influence over the media and over public conversation, that that's going to get much worse as well. So in that sense, we're already, it's not just Orban, by the way. I mean, this is what Hugo Chavez did in Venezuela. I think it's important for people to understand this is neither a right-wing nor a left-wing assault.

control and dictate and use different kinds of levers of influence over the media and over public conversation, that that's going to get much worse as well. So in that sense, we're already, it's not just Orban, by the way. I mean, this is what Hugo Chavez did in Venezuela. I think it's important for people to understand this is neither a right-wing nor a left-wing assault.

It's an illiberal assault on the state. It's an anti and ultimately anti-democratic and anti-constitutional. And I expect it to continue until somebody finds a way to stop it.

It's an illiberal assault on the state. It's an anti and ultimately anti-democratic and anti-constitutional. And I expect it to continue until somebody finds a way to stop it.

It's an illiberal assault on the state. It's an anti and ultimately anti-democratic and anti-constitutional. And I expect it to continue until somebody finds a way to stop it.

Thanks a lot.

Thanks a lot.

Thanks a lot.

Fine. Thanks for having me back.

Fine. Thanks for having me back.

Fine. Thanks for having me back.

One of the things that's happening is that this is the second time that Trump has won. And when you look at the pattern, whether it's Hugo Chavez or whether it's Viktor Orban, it's a loss and then a return that changes the politics.

One of the things that's happening is that this is the second time that Trump has won. And when you look at the pattern, whether it's Hugo Chavez or whether it's Viktor Orban, it's a loss and then a return that changes the politics.

One of the things that's happening is that this is the second time that Trump has won. And when you look at the pattern, whether it's Hugo Chavez or whether it's Viktor Orban, it's a loss and then a return that changes the politics.

Having overcome the fact that he assaulted the Constitution, broke the law multiple times, you know, whichever piece of it bothers you the most, he stole documents, you know, he was a corrupt businessman, all those things we now know. And yet he's been reelected anyway. People are going to say, right, this guy has...