Annie Jacobsen

And Perry described to me what that was like, the pause in his spirit and his mind and his heart when he realized, I'm about to have to tell the president that he needs to launch nuclear weapons. And he learned just in the neck of time that it was an error. And that's one of five examples.

For me personally, that's the only firsthand story that I ever heard because it's so rare and it's so unique. And most people in the national security system, at least in the past – have been loath to talk about any of this, right? It's like the sacred oath. It's taboo. It's taboo to go against the system of systems that is, you know, making sure nuclear war never happens.

For me personally, that's the only firsthand story that I ever heard because it's so rare and it's so unique. And most people in the national security system, at least in the past – have been loath to talk about any of this, right? It's like the sacred oath. It's taboo. It's taboo to go against the system of systems that is, you know, making sure nuclear war never happens.

For me personally, that's the only firsthand story that I ever heard because it's so rare and it's so unique. And most people in the national security system, at least in the past – have been loath to talk about any of this, right? It's like the sacred oath. It's taboo. It's taboo to go against the system of systems that is, you know, making sure nuclear war never happens.

Bill Perry was one of the first people who did this. And a lot of it, I believe, at least in my lengthy conversations with him, we had a lot of Zoom calls over COVID when I began reporting this. And He had a lot to do with me feeling like I could write this book from a human point of view and not just from the mechanized systems.

Bill Perry was one of the first people who did this. And a lot of it, I believe, at least in my lengthy conversations with him, we had a lot of Zoom calls over COVID when I began reporting this. And He had a lot to do with me feeling like I could write this book from a human point of view and not just from the mechanized systems.

Bill Perry was one of the first people who did this. And a lot of it, I believe, at least in my lengthy conversations with him, we had a lot of Zoom calls over COVID when I began reporting this. And He had a lot to do with me feeling like I could write this book from a human point of view and not just from the mechanized systems.

Because, and I only lightly touch upon this because it's such a fast sweeping scenario, but Perry, for example, spent his whole life dedicated to building weapons of war. Only later in life to realize this is madness. And he shared with me that it was that idea about one's grandchildren inheriting these nuclear arsenals and the lack of wisdom that comes with their origin stories, right?

Because, and I only lightly touch upon this because it's such a fast sweeping scenario, but Perry, for example, spent his whole life dedicated to building weapons of war. Only later in life to realize this is madness. And he shared with me that it was that idea about one's grandchildren inheriting these nuclear arsenals and the lack of wisdom that comes with their origin stories, right?

Because, and I only lightly touch upon this because it's such a fast sweeping scenario, but Perry, for example, spent his whole life dedicated to building weapons of war. Only later in life to realize this is madness. And he shared with me that it was that idea about one's grandchildren inheriting these nuclear arsenals and the lack of wisdom that comes with their origin stories, right?

When you're involved in it in the ground up, apparently it has... perhaps you're a different kind of steward of these systems than if you just inherit them and they are pages in a manual.

When you're involved in it in the ground up, apparently it has... perhaps you're a different kind of steward of these systems than if you just inherit them and they are pages in a manual.

When you're involved in it in the ground up, apparently it has... perhaps you're a different kind of steward of these systems than if you just inherit them and they are pages in a manual.

I mean, again, they are very classified, right? I mean, it was interesting coming across... levels of classification I didn't even know existed, like ECI, for example, is exceptionally controlled information, right? But the Pentagon nuclear wargaming scenarios, they're almost all still classified. One of them was declassified recently, if you can call it that.

I mean, again, they are very classified, right? I mean, it was interesting coming across... levels of classification I didn't even know existed, like ECI, for example, is exceptionally controlled information, right? But the Pentagon nuclear wargaming scenarios, they're almost all still classified. One of them was declassified recently, if you can call it that.

I mean, again, they are very classified, right? I mean, it was interesting coming across... levels of classification I didn't even know existed, like ECI, for example, is exceptionally controlled information, right? But the Pentagon nuclear wargaming scenarios, they're almost all still classified. One of them was declassified recently, if you can call it that.

I show an image of it in the book, and it's just basically like, almost entirely redacted, and then like there'll be a date, you know, or it'll say like phase one. And that one was called Proud Prophet. But what was incredible about the declassification process of that is it allowed a couple of people who were there to talk about it, okay? And that's why we have that information.

I show an image of it in the book, and it's just basically like, almost entirely redacted, and then like there'll be a date, you know, or it'll say like phase one. And that one was called Proud Prophet. But what was incredible about the declassification process of that is it allowed a couple of people who were there to talk about it, okay? And that's why we have that information.

I show an image of it in the book, and it's just basically like, almost entirely redacted, and then like there'll be a date, you know, or it'll say like phase one. And that one was called Proud Prophet. But what was incredible about the declassification process of that is it allowed a couple of people who were there to talk about it, okay? And that's why we have that information.

And I write about Proud Prophet in the book because it was super significant in many ways. One, it was happening right before In 1983, there was an, it was an insane moment in nuclear arsenals. There were 60,000 nuclear weapons. Right now there's 12,500. So we've come a long way, baby. Right. In terms of disarmament, but there were 60,000. And by the way, that was not the ultimate high.