Annie Jacobsen

You would absolutely think. I mean, and those words of wisdom, I might add, come from two former secretaries of defense whom I interviewed for the book, among scores of others. And in particular, Leon Panetta, who before he was SecDef was director of CIA for listeners.

You would absolutely think. I mean, and those words of wisdom, I might add, come from two former secretaries of defense whom I interviewed for the book, among scores of others. And in particular, Leon Panetta, who before he was SecDef was director of CIA for listeners.

And before that, the White House chief of staff, which gives him a breadth and scope of understanding about the president organization. across multiple decades and multiple administrations. And that is remarkable when Panetta said to me that, indeed, many presidents are under-informed. That original thought was made very clear by former Secretary of Defense Bill Perry, who was...

And before that, the White House chief of staff, which gives him a breadth and scope of understanding about the president organization. across multiple decades and multiple administrations. And that is remarkable when Panetta said to me that, indeed, many presidents are under-informed. That original thought was made very clear by former Secretary of Defense Bill Perry, who was...

And before that, the White House chief of staff, which gives him a breadth and scope of understanding about the president organization. across multiple decades and multiple administrations. And that is remarkable when Panetta said to me that, indeed, many presidents are under-informed. That original thought was made very clear by former Secretary of Defense Bill Perry, who was...

very vociferous on the record about how under-informed presidents are and how dangerous that is. And this is a very... It's complex when you hear something like that coming from a former SecDef, but it's also imperative because...

very vociferous on the record about how under-informed presidents are and how dangerous that is. And this is a very... It's complex when you hear something like that coming from a former SecDef, but it's also imperative because...

very vociferous on the record about how under-informed presidents are and how dangerous that is. And this is a very... It's complex when you hear something like that coming from a former SecDef, but it's also imperative because...

I find remarkable that individuals in their later stages of life, and these, you know, I never expected to be a reporter who spends the lion's share of her work interviewing, you know, men in their 80s and 90s. And I say men because nuclear command and control, they were all men in the Cold War. And so...

I find remarkable that individuals in their later stages of life, and these, you know, I never expected to be a reporter who spends the lion's share of her work interviewing, you know, men in their 80s and 90s. And I say men because nuclear command and control, they were all men in the Cold War. And so...

I find remarkable that individuals in their later stages of life, and these, you know, I never expected to be a reporter who spends the lion's share of her work interviewing, you know, men in their 80s and 90s. And I say men because nuclear command and control, they were all men in the Cold War. And so...

It is interesting from a sort of philosophical point of view, or all of us looking at our own humanity, when you think an older person reflects differently upon what it was like to be there and advise the president than the younger person, the younger self.

It is interesting from a sort of philosophical point of view, or all of us looking at our own humanity, when you think an older person reflects differently upon what it was like to be there and advise the president than the younger person, the younger self.

It is interesting from a sort of philosophical point of view, or all of us looking at our own humanity, when you think an older person reflects differently upon what it was like to be there and advise the president than the younger person, the younger self.

So it's so interesting that you speak of systems of systems because that is the sort of it's a big machine. And when you can really realize how many different components of the system there are, that in and of itself is astonishing. And they are all so important. When I learned from interviewing a STRATCOM commander, there are 150,000 individuals at the ready beneath him in the chain of command.

So it's so interesting that you speak of systems of systems because that is the sort of it's a big machine. And when you can really realize how many different components of the system there are, that in and of itself is astonishing. And they are all so important. When I learned from interviewing a STRATCOM commander, there are 150,000 individuals at the ready beneath him in the chain of command.

So it's so interesting that you speak of systems of systems because that is the sort of it's a big machine. And when you can really realize how many different components of the system there are, that in and of itself is astonishing. And they are all so important. When I learned from interviewing a STRATCOM commander, there are 150,000 individuals at the ready beneath him in the chain of command.

That is just a stunning number that I can almost guarantee Americans don't know because I certainly didn't know it. And writing this book was just learning one fact after the next. This is coming from someone who has studied, you know, war and weapons all her career. And yet every component of nuclear war literally stunned me.

That is just a stunning number that I can almost guarantee Americans don't know because I certainly didn't know it. And writing this book was just learning one fact after the next. This is coming from someone who has studied, you know, war and weapons all her career. And yet every component of nuclear war literally stunned me.

That is just a stunning number that I can almost guarantee Americans don't know because I certainly didn't know it. And writing this book was just learning one fact after the next. This is coming from someone who has studied, you know, war and weapons all her career. And yet every component of nuclear war literally stunned me.