Annie Jacobsen

Right.

And by dragging the moon into it, there's just no way that you can do anything but infer that he's referencing that.

And has anyone ever asked him about that on follow-up?

So will politics in the United States ever change to a point where we can have individuals who accept their responsibility?

I mean, another crazy thing, again, interviewing Panetta about Clinton, you know, as his chief of staff, it's like, oh, this is Panetta talking, that the presidents are –

very under-informed about any of their responsibilities about nuclear war.

They don't know how it unfolds.

They don't know how fast it is.

Did you know that they have a six-minute window to make a counterattack?

Six-minute window.

And that comes from President Reagan's memoir, by the way.

He said that there's a quote from him, which I have in the book, a six-minute window to have to make a decision to possibly end the world is irrational.

Any president you ever admired or part of their actions that you admired?

Today.

I mean, that speaking to the idea that conspiracies have become popular or rather, you know, thinking that there is a conspiracy behind things.

it's so astonishing that those files are not released after all this time.

It's almost impossible not to see, not to ask what is behind that veil.

What is so important to cover up?

And it does make me think that whatever it is, is such a poor reflection on America that the president therefore agrees, okay, we won't do that.

From all of the different sources I spoke to over the decades, I always get the sense that it was a nation state.