Annie Karni
Appearances
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
Another thing that's developed is it's not just Donald Trump. there's a whole right-wing ecosystem that does the work for him of threatening of, of making you fall in line. Um, he really doesn't need to anymore be the one to threaten you with a primary challenge.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
If you don't vote the way he wants you to vote, there's Charlie Kirk and Steve Bannon and this whole ecosystem that knows the playbook and doesn't need direction. So it kind of just exists on its own now.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
He's recording four hours every weekdays and two hours every weekend. And what he's really doing, his recording studio is in his basement, which is about a stone's throw from the Capitol. And he allows these far-right members that he agrees with to come on, and he gives them a platform. They raise money there. He asks, where do you send donations?
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
He prompts them multiple times during the interview. He gives them a platform that allows them to circumvent usually how you gain power in Washington, which is through leadership, through the leadership suites and lobbyists and mainstream media. This circumvents that. This is just directly to the base. And he gives them this huge platform.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
And there's just this like constant stream back and forth between Bannon's house and the House floor. They just walk back and forth. He worked a lot closely with Matt Gaetz on unseating Kevin McCarthy. He was like a strategist and a stage parent. So that is a whole new ecosystem that's helping the far right members.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
Yes. I mean, vulnerable Republicans are very scared. Our colleague Katie Edmondson did a profile of David Valadao, a very vulnerable member from California who, I mean, a huge percentage of his state is on Medicaid. So this idea, this threat that they're going to cut Medicaid is very worrisome for some Republicans across the country. And we've seen some senators in
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
trying to support Doge in abstract, but trying to defend against cuts in their state. So they're scared because the cuts in their state could lead to them losing their jobs. We've also seen senators like Tom Tillis of North Carolina try and find a way not to support some of these most controversial cabinet nominees. Tom Tillis is
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
went to great lengths to try and find a way to vote against Pete Hegseth for defense secretary. And ultimately it was too hard and he fell in line. Joni Ernst, too, is of Iowa. She's a survivor of sexual assault, has a military background, expressed concerns about Pete Hegseth. And the right-wing echo chamber threatened a primary challenge and she fell in line.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
So we've seen tiny attempts to break with the party line and those who want a political future, who care about getting reelected, eventually cave. There's not a lot of room for that right now. But certainly vulnerable Republicans are very concerned about potential Medicaid cuts that would be deeply unpopular with their voters.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
So, yeah, I mean, that is the basic issue of the last Congress and this Congress is that when you have a tiny majority, any member can throw themselves in the mix and make themselves the deciding vote. And in the last Congress, it gave this group of the 20 who are far right members outsized power. And I think that one of the best examples of how further right the House was than the country was was
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
was during those three weeks when they could not elect another speaker, one of the people going for it was Tom Emmer. He's been in leadership for a long time. He's from Minnesota. He, at some point when he was a state legislator, voted for same-sex marriage.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
When he was up running for speaker of the House, this position was a nonstarter for a lot of these deeply Christian red state congressmen who got up and said to him, you don't need to get right with me. You need to get right with God. And I can't support you for speaker if you took that vote. Now, this was like remarkable to me because this is a moment when like you can't get elected president.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
Like same sex marriage is broadly popular with Republicans and Democrats alike across the country. You couldn't be elected president by being anti-same-sex marriage probably. But in the House, which is pulled right by this small faction, you can't get elected speaker with that position. These people wielded outsized influence and they're socially conservative. They're fiscally conservative.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
They're mostly pro-Trump and that's who really kind of decided how the House functioned last year or more likely did not function. In our book, we document how Mike Johnson plotted his way to the speakership. He likes to say it just sort of landed in his lap. But you don't become the most powerful person in Congress by accident or by just praying.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
He was strategizing from January about maybe there's a path for him. And he and his very canny chief agreed. But now his entire ticket to power is Trump. And he has acted more like a junior member of the White House staff than as a leader of a co-equal branch of government because he has no power without Trump.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
the way he gets his members to fall in line on a bill he needs them to vote for is to say, well, you don't agree. You're going to have to call the president.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
We wrote a lot about – there was a lot more behind the scenes going on of Johnson – working secretly with the White House to get this done.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
The Biden White House. His chief of staff would meet with a top Biden advisor late at night in a dog park in their neighborhood and trade paper folders because they didn't want anything in writing. They thought that if these hard right members got wind of what they were doing, it would fall apart. So he was really working to get this deal done.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
He had been convinced by the intelligence that if Ukraine did not get financial support, Putin would steamroll across to Poland and then we would have to get involved in a war. And he made the case and he did finally bring a funding bill to the floor.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
At the time, this was seen as fairly remarkable in the same way that Pence, Mike Pence was remarkable in that you're not really doing anything particularly remarkable. You're literally doing your job, which was bring a bill to the floor and see if it has the votes to pass. But in a moment with the pressure on him, it seemed like he had actually stood up to the pressure.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
And at the time, Marjorie Taylor Greene was threatening to oust him from his job because of this. So he actually did, you know, at the time, make a hard decision, which was, I'm going to potentially risk my job to do what I think is the right thing. And now we saw him at the State of the Union.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
I actually couldn't help but knowing from our reporting all that he had done to secure Ukraine funding when Trump, during his addressed to the joint session, was complaining about Ukraine funding, Johnson was shaking his head on the day I spied him, like, I can't believe this. Terrible, terrible.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
And now he, the only way he defends what he did last year is to say, I set the table for Trump to end this war. But it's a complete 180 to fall in line with Trump's position.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
He says to her – Marjorie, have you ever been to Europe? And she says, no. And he says, have you ever served in the military? And she says, no. And he says, but you expect me to take your word for this over our generals, four-star generals, our guys, Trump guys. And she says, well, the American people know, and you would know if you weren't such a P-word.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
I mean, writing this would convince me that being a member of Congress, maybe being a senator is a nicer gig. You're not always running for your election. A lot of them, with their nice six-year terms, actually make a life in Washington and, like, can live with their children and have some semblance of a normal life. But for these House members... It's a slog. First of all, there's the travel.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
I mean, you are back and forth every week. If you live across the country, the jet lag and the travel is just crushing. Then there is not seeing your family. A lot of people, when they leave, it always sounds like kind of a cop-out or not the real reason if you say, like, I want to leave to spend more time with my family. But it's not actually like not a factor.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
We talked to one Brad Wenstrup who left Congress last term and he said that like his 10-year-old son would tell his wife like it feels like dad doesn't even exist. So that takes a toll. We talked earlier about the physical violence and the threats has become huge. I mean that – These members are under constant threats of violence and they don't have protection.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
If they want protection, they have to pay for it themselves from their campaign accounts. Not to mention then you're doing all this traveling and not having a regular family life and being threatened. And then you look at it and you're like, for what? When we're here – The House floor is frozen. We're not actually voting. We're sitting and taking 15 rounds. It took a week to elect a speaker.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
Like, for what? So a lot of people just made the calculation like it's just not worth it anymore. I mean, it's broken and I'm killing myself for nothing.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
Well, that's like a, I mean, it saves money. You know, they don't, a lot of people can't have two residences and the office sleeping is a long time thing. It kind of got less popular during COVID and after the Me Too movement because it's an awkward thing to be like living in your office and having staffers walk in in the morning and you're like brushing your teeth.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
But people still do it to save money. Yeah.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
Also, I spent a lot of time with some younger women, female members, who just doing the job drives home every day for them that this was not created for me. Okay.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
Well, first of all, let's remember, this is a hearing that's happening at night to start with. And why is it happening at night? Because some of the members who are on this committee had spent their workday that day in Manhattan, outside of the federal courthouse where Trump was on trial, defending him because a gag order prevented him from speaking for himself.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
So it's already a little emotional, like different vibe when you start a hearing at 8 p.m. Famously, like anything that starts in the evening in Congress, many people are drunk. There is like something called the drunk caucus that other members refer to. Leadership is always wary of scheduling votes at night because drinking is a problem.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
Yes. Among people who work in the Capitol and reporters, it's like not a revelation. Everyone just knows this, but it is a revelation to most people who don't. So anyway, this is starting at night. When you were playing that clip, I just couldn't help but thinking that everyone is being peak themselves. In that moment, ostensibly, like who even remembers what this hearing was about?
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
What happens here is that Greene makes what Crockett thinks is a racist attack, kind of making fun of her eyelashes, which Crockett in an interview later told us. She's seen those attacks online. It's like a ghetto girl thing. And Marjorie Taylor Greene was picking up a loaded comment to make a comment about her. And all the crazy things that Greene has said during her time in Congress –
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
Talking about eyelashes might really not rank up there, but there is one hard and fast rule that you can't do face-to-face ad hominem attacks. It's known as, quote unquote, engaging in personalities. So there's not a lot of rules in Congress, but you actually can't engage in personalities. And this was an ad hominem attack. So they go after Greene.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
And when Jasmine Crockett comes up with her famous now line, she smartly phrases it as a question. So it's not actually a direct ad hominem attack at Greene. So they're all kind of playing a game here. And one interesting thing is you can hear AOC getting pretty heated here. And in some ways, this was a moment that Greene won. Greene is constantly wanting to engage with AOC.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
She wants to get into it with the most famous House Democrat. And usually AOC does not take the bait. But in this clip, you can hear she gets to her. She takes the bait. She gets into a heated back and forth with Greene, which is kind of what Greene wants here.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
Right. And, you know, whether going lower is an improvement or not is a matter of opinion. Whether this was like a great moment for Democrats or not is really a matter of opinion. But usually when things go viral online, it's not a great sign for the functionality of Congress. And, you know, in this case, no one even remembered what the hearing was ostensibly about.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
You had Tim Burchett and Patrick McHenry on the floor. A lot of it is Republican on Republican, not just intraparty. Yes.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
We did. I think that along the way, I found reporting the book a great help to my day job writing about Congress for The New York Times. I got a lot of daily stories out of book reporting. But you can also – You're doing interviews under embargo. So people are willing to tell you things that they wouldn't tell you for the daily paper when you say this is not for use until March 2025.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
So I think that criticism, I understand why it's made, but... And it's not really fair. A lot of stuff isn't available in real time. And I think it's valuable to have it out eventually for history, for understanding the moment better. But it's just simply not available to use in real time. So would you rather have it never or would you rather have it later? And the book is the later.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
So sometimes we would be able to peel off stuff and ask sources, is it OK if I use this now? But the agreement when you do these interviews is that it's embargoed for the book. And you can't really violate that agreement.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
Frustration. I think, you know, right now what's happening is Chuck Schumer has become the bogeyman of the Democratic Party among rank and file House Democrats and among voters for just emotion and frustration at just wanting to do more, wanting to fight back. And this is because last week he voted with Republicans to stave off a government shutdown.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
If Democrats had not joined Republicans in the Senate, we would be in a government shutdown right now. And Chuck Schumer has been defending this decision for the past week, saying that would have been much, much worse. Elon Musk and Donald Trump wanted a shutdown. It would have allowed them... to decide which programs are essential and not essential and therefore never bring them back.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
His example that he's been talking a lot about is SNAP, food stamps. They could just say during a shutdown, this is not essential. And during a shutdown, there's no court check. So that could just go away. So on the merits, there's a good argument there. It's understandable why he did what he did. On the politics... There was white-hot anger at caving to Donald Trump.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
One day he said he was going to stand up and be against it. The next day he voted for it. So he's under a lot of pressure right now. I think the issue that's going on right now is there was not a lot of explaining that a short-term government spending bill in March of 2025 is not the fight. People want to know what is the fight. Where are we going to have an opportunity to stand up to Republicans?
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
This looked like one of the few times when Democrats had a role to play and they caved. Chuck Schumer has been hammered by Nancy Pelosi. Jeffries has been not really supportive. He was asked, do you have confidence in Schumer's leadership? And he said, next question. So there's a lot of intensity right now between the House and the Senate.
Fresh Air
Inside The 'Mad House' Of Congressional Disfunction
You've seen Bernie Sanders and AOC out there doing these huge rallies over the past few days. I mean, it's not clear yet what Democrats are doing, but there's obviously such a huge, deep desire to do more than their leaders are currently doing.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
Nein.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
Vielen Dank.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
,,,,,,, in P P P P P P P P P實 ac la , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , a a to P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
, , , , , ,, P P P P P P P P P P P實 ac cad ad cad ad cad ad cad ad cad ad cad ad cad ac ac ac ac ac ac ac P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P gener la gener la gener la gener la gener la gener la grg gener la gruw gi grg gener la gr test gener la gr hair gi hair gi hair gi hair gi hair gi hair g hair gi hair gi hair gi hair gi hair gi hair g hair g hair g hair gi hair g hair gi hair gi hair gi hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g hair g the in in in the the the the the the the the in the in t
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
, , , , ,, P P P P P P P P P P實 ac cad ad cad ad cad ad cad ad cad ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac ac to P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P G gener la gener la gener la gener la gener la gener la gr la grg e la grg gener la gr hair gi grg e g g grg e la gr hair g gr hair g gr hair g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g g in
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
, , , , , ,, in P P P P P P P P P實實實,實 , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , out P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P З gener la gener la gener la gener la gener la gener la grgggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg g ,G g ,G ,G ,G , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
,,,,,, in P P P P P P P P P實 ac la , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P P, gener la��������������������� g gi cad cad a ,G e ,G e , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , ,
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
He's a made man in Maga World. You don't see Jim Jordan trotting to the courthouse to stand outside the federal courthouse to show Trump how loyal he is. He does not have to prove himself. Some of the others do.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
Yeah, which is crazy to me, because she had approximately 0% chance of ever being VP. Wow. Elise Stefanik, ja, not likely, but not a 0% chance. Nancy Mace, after she had criticized Trump after January 6th, like a 0% chance.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
Ja, ja. Also habe ich eine Menge Zeit mit ihr verbracht, um das Buch ein bisschen mit ihr zu verbinden. Und was passiert ist, es war der Sommer 2023. Her Name had been floated in a political article about a short list for Trump's VP. I was in the office with her when she read this story. I could watch the dollar signs in the eyeballs almost. Her mind was off to the races.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
I could see her picturing possibly first woman president in the mirror. And she was kind of open and talking it out out loud. And I witnessed the justification that so many people make, which is like, well... Es ist besser, wenn ich da bin, als wenn ich nicht da bin. Aber es war ein bisschen furchtbar, weil, wie gesagt, sie war nie auf einer echten Kurzliste für VP. Immer.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
Okay, also die Nancy Mason, ja, sie wurde eine andere Person. Und ich verstehe nicht voll, was ihr um die Rednerboote und eine schreckliche Break-up passiert ist. Like that sounds very traumatic. But she got she got nine tattoos all over her body.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
And the funny thing about the tattoos is that when I told this anecdote to some other people in Trump world, this just shows you how petty this world is and how it's all about. Like I told this anecdote to a few people who don't like Mace and they were so excited to tell Trump because they said Trump hates tattoos. I can't wait to tell Trump. Like it's all about
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
Nancy Macy's Tattoos wurden gegen ihren Stand mit Trump genutzt, weil er Tattoos nicht mag. Ich meine, das war faszinierend für mich.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
Es hat sich verändert. Ich meine, schau, auf der Führungsstufe, Johnson, Mike Johnson, Speaker of the House, und Hakeem Jeffries, der Minoritätsführer, kamen tatsächlich mit einer guten Beziehung ein. They are both men of faith.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
Corny, but they found a lot in common and they actually trusted each other and liked each other. And then that relationship is sort of broken. You know, as you recall in the Congress that we wrote about in the book, Democrats actually saved Mike Johnson's job when Marjorie Taylor Greene was going to oust him because he brought a bill to send money to Ukraine to the House floor. So there was...
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
Actually, behind the scenes, they were working together. They felt like they could be honest with each other. And that sort of broke down over the Trump's budget resolution, which Jeffries and Johnson negotiated together and then Trump just... It became clear to Jeffries that there's really no point... The one from during the lame duck. Yes, the lame duck.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
Johnson can't stand by his word because Trump is in control. So there's really no point in negotiating with Johnson when it can... Maybe even a little bit different on the Senate side. I guess...
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
What do you think? Yeah, I mean, look, that's a very old school. The Senate is a little more still like that. It's collegial. There's only a hundred of them. A lot of them have been around forever and do have these. Like the Senators love to do
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
funny pairings on legislation like elizabeth warren and jd vance on like clawbacks for banks and federman and crews on a bill together like they do do these they do like to do bipartisan legislation but schumer's view which he articulated to us many times so it's like a deeply felt view of his is just that
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
Wie endete ein Trump-verrückter Redakteur von The Atlantic auf deinem Signal-Chat?
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
Trump is an evil sorcerer, that was his quote, who is a, quote, turd that the Republican Party will reject and then it will revert to being the old Republican Party. And like I was driving around Brooklyn with him at one point and he was like, it was after the border security deal fell through in the Senate, that was like the border security and Ukraine funding deal together.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
that fell apart because Trump killed it. Chuck Schumer was like, look, there's 10 senators that actually hate Ukraine and would vote that way anyway. And then there's the rest that without Trump, they would flip and want to support Ukraine. And his hope was that like this flip would happen.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
And I just don't, I think that's out of touch with where Democratic voters are and where a lot of his caucus is at this point. Like most Democrats and voters have come around to the idea that like MAGA is bigger than Trump. There's no reverting. There's really no evidence that anything is going back.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
Maybe Schumer is saying that because that's what he would like to happen. It's wishful thinking, but it's out of touch with reality.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
Yeah, Last Congress was a complete shitshow, as one person even told, Don Bacon told us we should name our book Shitshow. But you can't really promote a book with a curse word in the title, so we didn't. Es wurde einfach komplett von den Republikanern, die mit einander kämpften, definiert. Und es schlug die Flur zu einem Halt. Diese Zeit ist Trump sie einig.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
Zum Beispiel die Kurzzeit-Gewerks-Fundungsbill, die gerade über die Haustür geführt wurde. Unabhängig von einem Republikaner, Tom Smassey, der einfach seine eigene Person ist. Das ist literally the same kind of short-term spending bill that they hate so much that they ousted Kevin McCarthy because of it. And now Trump told them that he wants it, so they fall in line.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
So they are more united right now because of Trump. He is holding it together. And no one wants to cross it. His power over the party is near total. So there's really no room to end. So they are more together. I'd say like the top line out of this Congress so far is that they've just ceded their power completely to the White House.
The Bulwark Podcast
S2 Ep1008: Michael Weiss, Ben Smith, and Annie Karni: Radioactively Stupid
Like in this Jeff Goldberg group chat story, like the Congress has, is part of this story. They confirmed Pete Hegseth to be Defense Secretary. Like they have some responsibility here for what's happening because they have happily just handed over the power to Trump.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
We understand that extreme MAGA Republicans have a strategy. They want to flood the zone with outrage. But we can't chase every outrage. I'm a Yankee fan, and Aaron Judge is my favorite player. One of the reasons that he's a great hitter is that he does not swing at every pitch. We're not going to swing at every pitch. We're going to swing at the ones that matter for the American people.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
I'm seeing a huge shift in real time. So I think when Trump was elected, Democrats really wanted to show part of our brand is that we honor free and fair elections. He won. He won the popular vote. You know, we're not going to just be opposed to be opposed. Right. We're going to go to his inauguration. We're going to consider his nominees like on his or her merits.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
That started to shift with some of the actions the Trump administration was taking. Federal funding freeze was the most obvious place where Democrats could stage on the merits a huge protest. Also, cutting off USAID, letting Elon Musk plug in his personal hard drive to the entire Treasury database.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
Yes. So these are actions that now they feel differently. It's moving, and it's moving under pressure from outside of Congress. Reid wrote a really good story about Democratic governors calling Schumer and saying, oppose all of them, and him saying, no, it's better to pick our spots. That has already shifted.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
As of yesterday, Chuck Schumer now told his caucus, I'm voting against everyone now, and I urge you to do the same. Even someone like Chris Murphy, Mr. Swing at Every Pitch, He started out voting for some and he said to us, I changed my mind. Interesting. In real time. I no longer think that we can have any leg to stand on if we're saying yes to some of this stuff.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
Well... There's a lot of younger senators who definitely see an opportunity to be the future leader of their party. The clip you played of Chris Murphy, that sure sounded like someone campaigning for president. And there's a lot of younger, by Senate standards, lawmakers who probably look in the mirror and see an opportunity in 2028 to be the future of the party. Yeah.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
Yes, I've heard that argument a lot from DNC people, especially after the election. We're kind of saying, look, we actually outperformed in a lot of these districts. We did really well this cycle. And that was like a hard argument to take seriously. Like they lost the House and they're saying like, no, we actually won. Nancy Pelosi was a proponent of that.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
They did outperform like in a lot of districts where they should have done worse than they did. They outperformed the top of the ticket.
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
Another person making that same argument is Congresswoman Marie Glusenkamp Perez from Washington State. She owns an auto shop with her husband. She's been making the case that the Democratic Party does not respect the working class and that they need more working class people in Congress, that all these progressive policies like – Student loan forgiveness. She voted against it. Why?
The Daily
Where Are the Democrats?
Because no one in her district went to college. So she's saying that, like to Reid's point, some of this is for urban educated people and is leaving out large swaths of the country that Democrats aren't speaking to. That's what people like Perez are making.
The Headlines
Trump’s New Charm Offensive, and a Drone Attack on Moscow
Then a lot of these members relate to him sort of like as fans of a big celebrity who come with paraphernalia that they want him to sign. And that makes them feel special, and it really works. A few people told me this anecdote that, you know, he'll take you on Air Force One or Marine One and not only will he give you a ride, but he will sit you next to him and say, you know whose seat that is?
The Headlines
Trump’s New Charm Offensive, and a Drone Attack on Moscow
That's Melania's seat. Only Melania sits there. Look how special you are. Only you have sat there. Like he says that to everybody, but it's sort of flattery and they know what's on the other side. They know there's two modes that like if it's not that mode, it's threatening to end your political career. So there's no in between and they prefer this mode.
The Headlines
Trump’s New Charm Offensive, and a Drone Attack on Moscow
I've been talking to current lawmakers, former lawmakers, people who have been around Trump, working for him, just to get a sense of how does he kind of control House Republicans? How does he go about getting them to vote the way he needs them to vote?
The Headlines
Trump’s New Charm Offensive, and a Drone Attack on Moscow
So he is using, you know, the carrot more to appeal to them, the nice guy, the charm offensive. He knows these members really well. Like, a lot of them have his cell phone. He texts them when he sees them on TV. He invites them to dinner at Mar-a-Lago and encourages them to bring their families.