Arthur Kroeber

That's right.

And I think, you know, just, you know, so this is what happens if you say...

technological development, particularly in hardware, will solve all of our problems.

It will generate all this growth, and so therefore we don't need this service sector, right?

So we have a real-life experiment, and what happens if you do that?

And what happens if you do that is you get a lot of progress in the technological sectors, and you get basically a persistent shortage of aggregate demand, right?

which means that even the people who are making all this great technology stuff don't have any pricing powers.

They have to keep lowering their prices.

So you get deflation.

When you get deflation and less employment growth, people say at the household level, oh, people aren't hiring.

So I guess I need to save more and spend less because my income is not going to go up.

And you create the risk of

of this deflationary spiral, which they're sort of on the edge of right now.

And so I think this is something, again, this gets back to the sort of like the techno-optimist view of things, is that if you

If you have this very narrow view of the economy as purely the expression of the emanation from this technological core, you're missing a lot of stuff.

And you will basically take yourself into a blind alley if you think that that is going to solve all your problems.

And the Chinese government in the last few months I think has begun to recognize this.

and say, oh, actually, we need to have some kind of a demand strategy.

This is very evident in their top-level statements.

And the problem is they've been working for 45 years to build this magnificent machine of investment and industry and manufacturing, and they're very, very good at it.