Azeem Azhar

So there it's going to have to be collaboration.

But I think the really difficult question, and I don't think this necessarily shows up in the next year or two, is that that's only sovereignty by vibes.

Like it kind of feels like sovereignty.

It's not real sovereignty in the way that an international lawyer might think about it.

Because ultimately, you know, if you are building on the China stack, you're building on the US stack, one of these two countries can say,

Actually, we don't want to support you anymore.

And you don't have that lever of control then at that point.

But I think you can do quite a lot by building capabilities and just making your own capacity better.

It gives you more room at the bargaining table.

There's always a chance that something can happen.

You know, we live in a world of fat tails, right?

And odd things can happen.

We've been through moments of really, really deep security vulnerability in the past, which felt, you know, felt almost existential.

So Microsoft had all of those issues 20 plus years ago, which is why they then started to emphasize the idea of trusted computing technology.

There's clearly an emerging set, a new set of risks that come out.

But every technology wave has those new sets of risks.

And if you had gone to someone and said, 25 years ago, and said, oh, there'll be...

trillion cyber attacks a year on the internet.

You might have said, well, let's not build the internet.

But actually, the reason there are a trillion cyber attacks is because the internet is much more useful than any individual cyber attack.