Baroness Louise Casey

between various parts of the NHS.

And the second thing, I think, is that Ministry for Housing and Local Government actually are the people that run local government.

So who is then responsible for the people in the room that need social care?

As far as I can see, it doesn't have a clear enough accountability.

And I think for the public, like you go into hospital, right?

And you can actually, you have a fall, but prior to the fall and prior to going to hospital, you could go to the toilet yourself.

You can probably even make a staircase.

You have one fall, right?

Go into hospital, some people are catheterised so that we don't have your help to go to the loo in your bed rather than you walk to the toilet, just put it in plain English, at which point they use expressions like deconditioning.

So we admit people into hospital.

because your body stops functioning as well.

You then don't get them out of bed because it's not a medical need for them to get out of bed.

So we then end up having to discharge people either into their own home where they can no longer walk to the toilet or into care homes.

So just looking at somebody as a medical condition isn't psychologically where we need to be.

And it wasn't where we were when we set up the National Health Service.

Yes.

Yeah, I have.

We have.

So, I mean, essentially, I think that what's been good about the last 12 months is we've been able to assemble a fairly robust...

fairly robust amount of evidence about what is going on, where the spend is.