Barry Wirth

And the problem was that the other prisoners weren't spies and these guys were. And if they talked about it, it was going to raise questions not just about Downey and Factot, but the others as well. So it became very difficult to discuss. Of course, we had no direct discussions with the Chinese. We had no communication with the Chinese leadership for decades.

So Hammerskjold was able to open the door. There were a couple of years of very intensive discussions in Geneva about what But in the end, there was no talking about getting them back or swapping for them because they were spies who were being treated as unlawfully detained.

So Hammerskjold was able to open the door. There were a couple of years of very intensive discussions in Geneva about what But in the end, there was no talking about getting them back or swapping for them because they were spies who were being treated as unlawfully detained.

So Hammerskjold was able to open the door. There were a couple of years of very intensive discussions in Geneva about what But in the end, there was no talking about getting them back or swapping for them because they were spies who were being treated as unlawfully detained.

Let me separate this into phases. So initially, they didn't know what was going to happen to them. And as the Chinese continually reminded them, they were not covered by the Geneva Conventions. The Chinese could do anything with them that they wanted. As I said, they kept them in isolation. They kept them in shackles.

Let me separate this into phases. So initially, they didn't know what was going to happen to them. And as the Chinese continually reminded them, they were not covered by the Geneva Conventions. The Chinese could do anything with them that they wanted. As I said, they kept them in isolation. They kept them in shackles.

Let me separate this into phases. So initially, they didn't know what was going to happen to them. And as the Chinese continually reminded them, they were not covered by the Geneva Conventions. The Chinese could do anything with them that they wanted. As I said, they kept them in isolation. They kept them in shackles.

After Jack's cover confession, where he admitted that he was CIA, they kind of left them alone for a long period. And he was terrified. He was shaken. He didn't know whether he could survive this. And then they started to put more pressure on him. They wanted a full confession. They wanted to know everything that he knew.

After Jack's cover confession, where he admitted that he was CIA, they kind of left them alone for a long period. And he was terrified. He was shaken. He didn't know whether he could survive this. And then they started to put more pressure on him. They wanted a full confession. They wanted to know everything that he knew.

After Jack's cover confession, where he admitted that he was CIA, they kind of left them alone for a long period. And he was terrified. He was shaken. He didn't know whether he could survive this. And then they started to put more pressure on him. They wanted a full confession. They wanted to know everything that he knew.

And he did a very savvy thing that I think only somebody who had his kind of literary bent could do, which is he said, okay, I'll give you everything I know, but I'd like to do it in writing. I don't want to have to continually talk about this under interrogation. And they let him do it. And what he did is he wrote voluminously every day for nine months

And he did a very savvy thing that I think only somebody who had his kind of literary bent could do, which is he said, okay, I'll give you everything I know, but I'd like to do it in writing. I don't want to have to continually talk about this under interrogation. And they let him do it. And what he did is he wrote voluminously every day for nine months

And he did a very savvy thing that I think only somebody who had his kind of literary bent could do, which is he said, okay, I'll give you everything I know, but I'd like to do it in writing. I don't want to have to continually talk about this under interrogation. And they let him do it. And what he did is he wrote voluminously every day for nine months

filling his confession with all kinds of trivia, irrelevant material, a kind of a hyped up postmodern writing style where he'd say, oh, I met with so-and-so on Wednesday. No, maybe it was Tuesday. Oh, I think it was Thursday. No, it was probably just to bury his confession under a mountain of chaff. And when he was done,

filling his confession with all kinds of trivia, irrelevant material, a kind of a hyped up postmodern writing style where he'd say, oh, I met with so-and-so on Wednesday. No, maybe it was Tuesday. Oh, I think it was Thursday. No, it was probably just to bury his confession under a mountain of chaff. And when he was done,

filling his confession with all kinds of trivia, irrelevant material, a kind of a hyped up postmodern writing style where he'd say, oh, I met with so-and-so on Wednesday. No, maybe it was Tuesday. Oh, I think it was Thursday. No, it was probably just to bury his confession under a mountain of chaff. And when he was done,

They had 3,000 pages of his confession, which bought more time for the CIA and also meant that it was going to take them months to go through it. But eventually they did, and that was a good part of the evidence that they used at his trial. So now it's two years later. He doesn't know what's going on. He doesn't know the Korean War is over.

They had 3,000 pages of his confession, which bought more time for the CIA and also meant that it was going to take them months to go through it. But eventually they did, and that was a good part of the evidence that they used at his trial. So now it's two years later. He doesn't know what's going on. He doesn't know the Korean War is over.

They had 3,000 pages of his confession, which bought more time for the CIA and also meant that it was going to take them months to go through it. But eventually they did, and that was a good part of the evidence that they used at his trial. So now it's two years later. He doesn't know what's going on. He doesn't know the Korean War is over.

He hasn't seen another soul other than his guards and translators. But then slowly after that, He began after the Hammerskog visit, which ended in failure, he began to adjust and he pulled himself together. And as he said, he concluded number one, that he couldn't be brainwashed, which was very significant because during this period,