Bella Freud

And is that the word that you invented?

technology and and that's kind of what we're doing with our phones yeah so i called it croning from cronenberg oh that's great that's so good it's um it's amazing how powerful that because when you were describing it i could feel my body following it and i love anything to what i love about this somatic experience therapy that i'm also doing

And that it makes you think with your body and it's not such a pressure on your mind.

And suddenly there's all these other things that come to life and to light.

And there's other places to think from.

I find that.

really stimulating.

I was fascinated by your interest in Mary Magdalene as well and how history has reduced her to a kind of prostitute-like figure.

And I remember going to see Jesus Christ Superstar when I was 12.

And it was one of the few good things my stepfather, who wasn't such a

positive influence on me but he took us to see Jesus Christ Superstar in London we lived in the country and she was the person that really stood out to me and seemed so reasonable and credible and she had this great song and um and I wondered what what drew you what appealed to you about her um I mean so many things actually I think obviously like

Well, I think even those stories and seeing it in that musical, which was actually one of the most brilliant things I've ever seen, but the person who was relatable was her, Magdalene, because...

Being, you know, everyone's so one-dimensional, really.

The other characters, pilots, I mean, everyone had a bit more nuance in that play, but I always wondered why she seemed like the one who was relatable, rather than Virgin Mary just seemed...

one-dimensional Jesus in some ways as well because he was just good you know and she seemed to have more understanding and so she was very attractive as a person and yeah and because when

With the pole dancing, I was thinking how you seem able to embrace and bring into your artistry these things that are attributed to, you know, like pole dancing is associated more with dancing in a strip club or something.

And you said you wanted to learn it because you wanted to learn how to fly.

And it's so poetic and beautiful how you use it, especially in the video of cellophane.

It's incredible.

And it seems somehow both voyeuristic and very private.