Ben McKenzie

And against our self-interest.

Yes.

And so I've always been fascinated by that, which maybe perhaps led me a little into acting in the sense of the study of human behavior as well.

And also maybe into true crime too, because I'm also fascinated by that, which has led me to this weird place where I'm now.

And I think one of the things that it does that's sort of frustrating for these other economists, because they want to presume rationality so that they can model what's going to happen.

Yeah, predict.

But the unfortunate reality, in my opinion, and the opinion of a lot of behavioral economists, is you can't.

You can try, but just like humans are fallible and irrational, the models are never going to be able to predict that.

Exactly, which maybe perhaps brings us to crypto, because it's like you can look back at financial manias of the past

And I was finding a lot of similarities between crypto and a lot of these other things in economics and through different lenses.

But while you're in the middle of it, until it actually collapses, who's to say, really, am I crazy?

Are they crazy?

Only time's going to tell.

Right.

I'm pretty lucky.

I am talented.

I'm not trying to do like a humble brag.

There's also an incredible amount of luck that's involved there.

Amy Adams' husband with the mustache.

That was—so I had done the first season of The O.C.