Ben Nicholson-Smith

And then also, like, when it comes to... Just to jump in on that, the highest upside move for the Blue Jays might actually be DFA Heinemann.

He clears, you keep him, and you have Valenzuela at the Major League level at a time that Valenzuela's performing best.

So...

It would both be the highest risk and the highest reward to DFA Heinemann and then see what happens vis-a-vis a claim.

100%.

Oh yeah, you're always wondering what other teams know about you.

I think that's, you have to, is kind of playing defense in a sense.

To me, part of this comes down to the assessment of where McIver is defensively because it seems like he can hit at least a little bit and Tyler Heinemann's not hitting.

So from an offensive standpoint, if you had to replace Heinemann with McIver, it's maybe a wash.

Now, in a scenario where Kirk

whatever, re-aggravates, is on the injured list again later in the season, Heinemann's somehow gone, then are you comfortable with two rookie catchers, right?

Are you comfortable with both McIver and Valenzuela being the only catchers on a team that's trying to contend and trying to get back to the playoffs?

So that's where it circles to me around what McIver can offer defensively, how well he works with pitchers, and that to me is an unknown.

I don't know, you might have more on this, Arden.

I'm not sure how well regarded he is on that front, but

The offense from a backup catcher, you almost take what you can get and hope for the best.

But if he's seen as a really good defender who can step into a major league environment, learn on the fly, and adapt, then you're probably more comfortable taking on risk when it comes to losing a veteran catcher.

Yeah, absolutely.

And, you know, ultimately it's not like you can go around and, you know, ask everybody what their opinion is either.

So you almost have to, this is where it's like the day-to-day communication of just understanding, okay, do they like working with this guy?