Ben Rhodes

Obama got it so much that sometimes in these lengthy phone calls, you would see his attention wander because Bibi was going right to the same place.

But every time we looked at it, what was clear is, first of all, you can't bomb a nuclear program out of existence.

It's too scattered.

It's knowledge that the Iranians have.

It's scientists that they have.

They know how to do the nuclear fuel cycle.

You can't destroy that from the air.

Maybe if you occupied the country, you could.

And also, we saw the extraordinary costs that would come with any war.

In every war game I ever looked at, the Iranians would shut down the Strait of Hormuz, through which 20% of the world's fossil fuel energy flows.

In every scenario, they were likely to lash out.

Oh, but Ben, that's not realistic.

It's not a very large body of water.

And so what's so insane about watching all this is this was very clear to anybody who in good faith assessed the problem when we were there.

And frankly, I think probably even other presidencies and administrations, probably even Trump's first term.

And for some reason, known only to him and maybe to Bibi Netanyahu, he decided to give it a try and see if we can eliminate this regime by bombing them and destroy their nuclear program.

We could wing it.

And here we are where he's caused incalculable damage to our reputation, to the global economy.

Thousands of people have been killed.

I mean, real consequences, hundreds of billions of dollars have been spent.