Ben Rhodes

Wow.

What has been effective?

Very little.

Very little.

The reality is that what has been effective is, to an extent, a demand reduction in the United States sometimes works.

Look, you're exactly right about that.

The problem with fentanyl is that it is easy, relatively easy to synthesize in Mexico once the precursors

or even the precursors to the precursors have made their way through the very normal industrial supply chain.

I was talking to a banking official in Central America who said these organizations know exactly what they're doing.

They'll order maybe three or four percent more supply to legitimate industrial sites and then siphon off those supplies to kind of to create what to develop what they need.

They know what they're doing.

And I think that that is that's one of the great challenges.

You know, what does work is going after them like enterprises.

The kingpin strategy is criticized as kind of showy.

And you remember all those years where the number two and number three of Al Qaeda kept on getting killed and replaced the week later?

That's right.

And today I saw the number two of the Nubat Hanyanasyan was killed today.

And I thought, yeah, OK, here we go.

But the reality is that when strategies like going after...

I'm not kidding.