Ben Rhodes

So we wanted to start by talking about this Ugandan election.

On one side, you had the 81-year-old kind of strongman president, Museveni, who's been in power since 1986.

On the other hand, you had 43-year-old opposition leader, Bobby Wine, who's actually been on this podcast a couple of times, for those who remember, once with his wife, Barbie, actually, who also ran in 2021.

And just to kind of set the scene, Yusra,

Something of a rematch.

Bobby Wine, at some risk to himself, has kind of stayed largely in Uganda in recent years.

The election took place amidst an internet blackout.

You described Kampala as feeling like a war zone.

Just set the scene.

What was the mood in the country leading up to this election?

How did people that you interacted with see the vote before it happened?

Well, you know, the tally that you mentioned, Museveni won, claiming 72% of the vote.

Obviously, that's disputed by Bobby Wan in the opposition.

Museveni, in his victory speech, called the opposition terrorists who were working with foreigners and homosexuals.

I guess one place need to start, I mean,

That 72% figure, I mean, is there any sense of legitimacy around it?

I know we can't get any kind of independent tally here, but what is your sense of the likelihood that that number matches any reality?

So I want to ask about both the government and the opposition.

Starting with the government, you actually sat down with President Museveni a few days ago.

I should add, you know, he's been backed over the years by the United States, I think, much to our discredit in a lot of ways.