Ben Rhodes

All right.

Well, look, let's set aside for one second the who's at fault conversation, which is normally where we start a conversation about Cuba.

And let's talk about what's actually happening to people right now.

I mean, the fuel shortages have kicked in.

You're seeing a lot less activity in the streets.

When you talk to people who are in Havana now or just come back from Havana and visited, they say that people are waiting for something big to happen and the streets are calm.

But there is a sense of...

you know, that something momentous is kind of afoot.

The way it's being felt right now is in massive poverty.

It's something like 89% of the population is in extreme poverty in Cuba now, which is historically high levels.

There's much more food insecurity.

I mean, there's just a lot more malnutrition, a lot more insecurity.

The difference between now and when Ben and I were involved is the level of resentment that

is sky high.

There's very little hope.

Everything that has been, you know, every potential opening has been snuffed out on the government side.

And then in the first Trump administration, with the help of the Trump administration.

So all the tools that people had for making their lives a little bit better under these extreme conditions have been shut off one after another, which is why 2 million people left after the COVID epidemic.

Everything.

It's everything.