Benedict Townsend

It's a miracle they hired anyone with that system. Yeah. That's crazy. In August 2015, Karen officially joined Vine HQ. And it wasn't just Karen who was new. The role she was taking, head of creative development, was also brand new. So were you the first person to have that role?

It's a miracle they hired anyone with that system. Yeah. That's crazy. In August 2015, Karen officially joined Vine HQ. And it wasn't just Karen who was new. The role she was taking, head of creative development, was also brand new. So were you the first person to have that role?

Yeah, it seems at that time Twitter basically had a hard line on how it dealt with creators, which is to say to not deal with them at all.

Yeah, it seems at that time Twitter basically had a hard line on how it dealt with creators, which is to say to not deal with them at all.

Absolutely not. You know, the approach of social media platforms traditionally, to this day, has always been actively courting creators all the time. YouTube was constantly crowing about, like, we have so much money we can offer you from ads. Like, please come and create. Because they understood that this is a symbiotic relationship. You need the platform. You need the creators.

Absolutely not. You know, the approach of social media platforms traditionally, to this day, has always been actively courting creators all the time. YouTube was constantly crowing about, like, we have so much money we can offer you from ads. Like, please come and create. Because they understood that this is a symbiotic relationship. You need the platform. You need the creators.

You need to get along. You know, you can't take the creators for granted. Absolutely.

You need to get along. You know, you can't take the creators for granted. Absolutely.

absolutely you can take an approach of like oh well there'll always be more creators but also sometimes it's a bit of a quality over quantity thing like you know you've got a movie you could cast Tom Hanks and you go you know what there's plenty of other actors we'll just get another actor and it's like yeah but that is not Tom Hanks, doesn't have the pull. It's the same with these creators.

absolutely you can take an approach of like oh well there'll always be more creators but also sometimes it's a bit of a quality over quantity thing like you know you've got a movie you could cast Tom Hanks and you go you know what there's plenty of other actors we'll just get another actor and it's like yeah but that is not Tom Hanks, doesn't have the pull. It's the same with these creators.

You know, I think Twitter seemed to have this approach of like, creators are just like a naturally occurring resource that comes out the ground. We'll have so many of them and it'll be fine. But it's like, well, actually, if you want to succeed, you have to court the big players and you have to treat them with a modicum of respect. You have to acknowledge they exist.

You know, I think Twitter seemed to have this approach of like, creators are just like a naturally occurring resource that comes out the ground. We'll have so many of them and it'll be fine. But it's like, well, actually, if you want to succeed, you have to court the big players and you have to treat them with a modicum of respect. You have to acknowledge they exist.

And where did that come from, that kind of resistance? Is it because they wanted it to be about...

And where did that come from, that kind of resistance? Is it because they wanted it to be about...

When I think of this period of Vine, I think of comedy skits. I think of the 1600 Viners, a spattering of generally offensive lowbrow humor. Turns out there was so much else going on, it just wasn't breaking through for users like me.

When I think of this period of Vine, I think of comedy skits. I think of the 1600 Viners, a spattering of generally offensive lowbrow humor. Turns out there was so much else going on, it just wasn't breaking through for users like me.

Taylor Lorenz watched this play out. She says it wasn't just a matter of refusing to engage with the biggest creators. The founders were actively taking measures to try and suppress their influence.

Taylor Lorenz watched this play out. She says it wasn't just a matter of refusing to engage with the biggest creators. The founders were actively taking measures to try and suppress their influence.

That is crazy to me. Yeah, this was one of the revelations from your book. A revelation to me anyway, which is that I always associated Vine with having like no algorithm, you know, no, they didn't mess with the feed. You know, it was kind of one of the last apps where they weren't actively messing with the feed.

That is crazy to me. Yeah, this was one of the revelations from your book. A revelation to me anyway, which is that I always associated Vine with having like no algorithm, you know, no, they didn't mess with the feed. You know, it was kind of one of the last apps where they weren't actively messing with the feed.