Bob Kagan

speaker

1,471 appearances 4 recordings 1 series first heard Feb 2026 last heard 29 Jul

Bob Kagan’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.

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recordings per month · last 12 months

Recordings per month over the last 12 months — 4 in all, peaking in Jul 2026 with 1.

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The Bulwark Daily · Jonathan V. Last and Robert Kagan: Marco and Miller Go Full Fascist · 29 Jul 2026 podcast

And it used to be that the United States provided access to the strait.

Now they know that China can get access to the Strait.

I don't think that means Japan's going to cut a deal with China.

I think that Japan is going to have to figure out a way to make sure that they can get their oil through, which means either paying off Iran or – and I think this is going to happen in the long term, not just for Japan but for other powers –

building your own naval force so that you can actually have some say in a world where the only thing that ultimately matters, which is always true, but it'll be much more true now, is how much power you can wield, how much military power and maybe also economic power you can wield in any given situation.

It's sort of every man for himself now, which means a global arms race among great powers at the very least.

And nuclear proliferation, which is already in the process of happening, especially if Donald Trump is going to help the Saudis get an enrichment capability.

Right.

Including Trump's ask, by the way.

Well, again, does Trump know what he's doing when he does these things?

Surely there was an advisor in there somewhere who might have said, Mr. President, what about the whole...

normalization thing.

So I don't know whether he ignored it and then was embarrassed or he didn't think about it.

But then the question is with him always, is he really going to hold Saudi to that, right?

I mean, I suppose at some point we either begin sharing what we're going to share with them or we're not.

That point is somewhere down the road.

Will anybody remember that we were doing it without?

You know what I mean?

Trump has a way of sort of saying he's going to do something and then it kind of fritters away.

So we don't we don't even know what the nature of the deal is going to be unless Congress steps in in some way, which it hasn't much been in the habit of doing.

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