Bobby

Teachers, though, is a good one to cross-examine on that. Teachers are never happy, are they? I mean, they're so under-resourced. They're struggling. I just feel like most teachers probably would love to be happier.

Teachers, though, is a good one to cross-examine on that. Teachers are never happy, are they? I mean, they're so under-resourced. They're struggling. I just feel like most teachers probably would love to be happier.

Yeah. I think it does. This particular question was specific to like, are you happy with your job? And so that is the context that we're talking about. But of course, nobody just draws a wall up around their job. And like, as they walk through the door to work, all of a sudden they're like this different feeling person. These things do affect each other.

Yeah. I think it does. This particular question was specific to like, are you happy with your job? And so that is the context that we're talking about. But of course, nobody just draws a wall up around their job. And like, as they walk through the door to work, all of a sudden they're like this different feeling person. These things do affect each other.

They said, meh. So what this number is, is you take the happy people, and it's 20%. And then there's two categories that make up the 80%. And a large part of that is not like, I hate my job. They're just like, you know, it's a job, which isn't all that bad. I mean, a job is a job because it's work.

They said, meh. So what this number is, is you take the happy people, and it's 20%. And then there's two categories that make up the 80%. And a large part of that is not like, I hate my job. They're just like, you know, it's a job, which isn't all that bad. I mean, a job is a job because it's work.

I mean, it's not, I know we have a culture and of course the desire to like follow your passion and do what you love and all of these things. But that's the few and the proud usually who can actually do that. You know, it's not very many of us.

I mean, it's not, I know we have a culture and of course the desire to like follow your passion and do what you love and all of these things. But that's the few and the proud usually who can actually do that. You know, it's not very many of us.

That's how I read it as well. Yes. Technical debt and complexity are the two driving factors to this unhappiness, which effectively is developer experience. I mean, it's your work. And how did we get there? I think it's just like two decades of move fast and break things, isn't it? I mean, isn't that just kind of how we've gotten here? That's my best guess.

That's how I read it as well. Yes. Technical debt and complexity are the two driving factors to this unhappiness, which effectively is developer experience. I mean, it's your work. And how did we get there? I think it's just like two decades of move fast and break things, isn't it? I mean, isn't that just kind of how we've gotten here? That's my best guess.

Right. So in this tracking that you do with regard to attrition, 15 to 25 percent. Is that what you said? Yeah. In the next 12 months, likely to move somewhere else. Do you also get qualitative information about like why? Like why are they moving on? Is it similar things?

Right. So in this tracking that you do with regard to attrition, 15 to 25 percent. Is that what you said? Yeah. In the next 12 months, likely to move somewhere else. Do you also get qualitative information about like why? Like why are they moving on? Is it similar things?

Right, which can manifest in technical issues, but also bureaucratic issues.

Right, which can manifest in technical issues, but also bureaucratic issues.

Right. You're feeling like you're not getting anything done or you're, you're constantly like working Jira tickets and you come in in the morning and you got 20 open tickets and you work eight hours and you sweat and you bleed and you leave and you got 22 open tickets and you're like, I'm never going to, I'm never going to get myself up from here into a place of progress.

Right. You're feeling like you're not getting anything done or you're, you're constantly like working Jira tickets and you come in in the morning and you got 20 open tickets and you work eight hours and you sweat and you bleed and you leave and you got 22 open tickets and you're like, I'm never going to, I'm never going to get myself up from here into a place of progress.

You just feel like maintenance, maintenance is all it is. And I can see how that would be demoralizing, especially over time.

You just feel like maintenance, maintenance is all it is. And I can see how that would be demoralizing, especially over time.

Yeah, I think this speaks to our technical debt metaphor and some of the argumentation we've had on this show with friends about is that a good metaphor or not? Because you can't really quantify it like you can actual debt. You can take your debt and your debt service principle and interest. You can take your interest rate.

Yeah, I think this speaks to our technical debt metaphor and some of the argumentation we've had on this show with friends about is that a good metaphor or not? Because you can't really quantify it like you can actual debt. You can take your debt and your debt service principle and interest. You can take your interest rate.