Bozoma Saint John
speaker
183 appearances
2 recordings
2 series
first heard Jan 2025
last heard Mar 2025
Bozoma Saint John’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Appearances
Will determine how quickly I'm able to get out and correct myself.
Ooh, yes. It's like- Yes. I was having a conversation with a friend and I was like, you know that time, you know when you hit your shin? And that moment between knowing you've hit your shin and when the pain sets in is like the worst. Because you're just sitting there waiting for the pain to come. You're like, oh, I know this is going to hurt.
That moment right there is what sometimes we're sitting in. Because you don't want the pain to come. And so then we're sitting there being like, ooh, I made a mistake. Uh-oh, I hit my shin. How long can I wait before the pain sets in?
Yeah, yeah. No, look, Abby, thank you for that perspective, because I do often need the reminder of that too. And so I think both can be true. Part of the reason why I... Stopped looking at them as the cause or the reason why sometimes something didn't work or, you know, for me to figure that out is that I felt like I was giving my power away. And perhaps that's a survival mechanism.
You know, that I was like, well, if I look at myself, if I say it's me, then I'm better able to feel like, okay, I can make something else happen. I can be the one who chooses because I chose to come and I can choose to leave. And if I put the power over there, then it feels like I can't choose because I'm waiting for them to do the thing that's right. And so when I'm sitting at those tables,
And yes, almost always by myself. It is both frustrating to know that, um, I'm probably doing the right thing for the future, but also that I'm the one who has to take the brunt of it. You know, that, um, I actually, again, like I've been thinking a lot lately. Ever since I left my job. Doing a lot of thinking. And I was just like, damn, like the idea of hidden figures hurts so much.
Because to think that perhaps you were the catalyst. or something, and then nobody remembers your name. Nobody gives you the credit. And that's what it feels like when I'm in the room. You know, I'm thinking, this is gonna be so great for the people who come after, but will anybody remember me? Will they remember my pain, this moment, this choice I made? And if not, is that okay?
Am I all right with it? Am I okay with the sacrifice? And if I'm being totally transparent and honest, I'm not. I'm not okay with it. I don't want to be hidden. I don't want to be forgotten. And yes, people can say, oh, but how can you be? You're going to be in the Hall of Fame. You're this and you're that. And people know your name. No, no, no. I want the credit. Of course you do.
Yes. Because look, I think one of the most... obvious places and you know it happens a lot it happens every time but one of the most obvious i think for everyone who sees it will understand it was the moment i took the stage of the apple keynote wwdc where no other black person forget black no other black person had presented the software before. I mean, Steve Jobs stage, right?
You've got all of the known people on the stage, Eddie Cue and Craig Federici and Phil Schiller. They're the ones who present, right? And leading up to that moment, first of all, there was a lot of doubt that I should even do it, right? Because look, I'm a marketer. I'm not an engineer. I'm a Black woman, although nobody wants to say that out loud.
Yeah, I'm like, uh-huh. And that whole statement about like, oh, I don't know if they'll believe you. Yeah, uh-huh, I know why. But Abby, your point about the allure of just aligning to make things easier, that was my choice that day too. Where it's like, look, everybody showed up in their jeans and button down shirt. Like a literal visual.
I walked into the green room in the back of the stage and there were, it was just a rack of jeans. And... blue button down shirts and pink button down shirts and khaki colored things. And I just looked at it and I was standing there in my curly Afro, my very tight pink dress, my Louboutin stilettos with a little poof on the back too. How dare me, right?
A little poof on the back just to add insult to injury. And I was standing back there and it was like, you know, Tim Cook went first to start the presentation and then Eddie went and Eddie is supposed to introduce me. And I'm standing back there and I was just like, whew, one of these things is not like the other, you know, waiting for my turn.
And when I went on that stage, I know it would have been easier for me too, by the way, if I had just put on the jeans and the button down. If I had just tried to look like everybody else, maybe that would be one less barrier.
you know, than even how I appear to be. Not even, I hadn't even opened my mouth yet. I had not even presented one idea yet. Just how I look. And so for all of us who are showing up in these spaces, of course you just want to align. In that little moment of like just walking in the door, knowing everybody's going to turn and look at you.
If you didn't have that hair, if you didn't have on that crazy outfit, if you weren't wearing those daggone earrings, if your nails weren't painted a certain way, if you weren't wearing those shoes, clickety clack, clack, clack. Here I come down the hallway. You know I'm coming because you heard my heels clicking. It would be so much easier. But I refuse. To do that.
Because I do know all the people who are walking behind me. I am very aware of that. And it still hurts. Both of those things can be true. So no, I am not like some, you know, like humble martyr out here. I want my roses. Yes. I want them now. I can, yes, both can be true that I want it for them too, but I want mine. Mm-hmm. You know, and that's why I choose.
That's why when I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh, you know what? This ain't right. Let me just, where's my purse at? Let me just pack my things and get up the hell out of here. Because I recognize that unless I do that, I will be that hidden figure. Nobody will know my name.
Yes.
That's right. That's right. Or when we are creating strategies, right. Or telling stories, especially as a, as a marketer, right. That's my whole job is to create narratives about things. And you have to make it for. the mass market, right? Meaning that my story doesn't matter in it. But how can that be? Very early on in my career, I contemplated that.
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