Bozoma Saint John
speaker
183 appearances
2 recordings
2 series
first heard Jan 2025
last heard Mar 2025
Bozoma Saint John’s voice in public audio — every appearance, attributed to the second.
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Appearances
I was like, so how am I supposed to create this narrative for white men when I've never been one? That's very strange. And I thought, I must be smarter than all the rest of y'all because if I can do it and you can't tell my story, oh, then I'm very fucking good because I could tell my story and yours. Oh, my God. That's where it started from, right? Because I was just like, oh, I see.
You're trying to tell me that I'm not as good as you, but actually I'm better because I can do both. You could only do one. And then at some point I was like, oh, but wait, but my story is actually really important too. Mm-hmm. So then how do I put my story into the thing? You know, how do I add my perspective onto the story to really tell it?
It was so interesting how much resistance you can get when you're simply just trying to show up as yourself. It's still surprising to me. Most times I'm just like, but this can't be, like you can't really ignore Me, right? Like, you wouldn't be that overt about it. But no, it's true. Yes, we hide it in all the words. They're like, no, it's got to be mass market.
It's got to hit, you know, the majority. And therefore, your story is not important. Your perspective is not important. Please consider everybody else before yourself. And perhaps that's also what is striking me because I've been conditioned that that's what I'm supposed to do. Whether it's for the opening the doors for everybody else, consider everybody else but myself.
Or in the narrative telling or in the strategy setting, consider everybody else but myself. And I'm just at the point where I'm just like, no, I'm only considering myself. That's right. How about that? Yes.
Yes, yes, yes, yes. And to appear... To be different, but not actually be different. And that was another thing that I've realized is that, look, I actually really do show up as myself, really. And so when that happens, people are just like, oh, but wait, I thought you would then just fit into our culture. because our culture is our thing and you're supposed to fit into it.
And what's so interesting to me is, although I love the arts, I'm really a science gal, you know? And I'm like, molecules are so interesting. When you think about matter, it's like in any matter, it could be DNA, it could be water, it could be anything. You add a molecule into the matter and the whole matter changes. It doesn't matter what you're talking about.
So if you consider that the matter is a culture, whether it's society or it's a company or it's a family, you have matter. And then the one molecule that enters that matter changes it. It is not the same. And so then you've got to contemplate, well, then, if that is true, because it's true in science, if I walk into a corporate culture, I am the molecule. The matter has to change.
It's not even a choice. It has to change. So then why would I consider myself insignificant? Even if I'm just one. Because if you have a glass of water and you drop some red dye into it, regardless of how small that drop is, it changes. It's no longer the same.
So that little drop can't be insignificant. So I am not insignificant.
They don't want the change. They don't want the change because the change is also too hard. I think they really do want it because we all want things. You know what I mean? We all want things. But just as in the name of the... This podcast, like it's hard. It is hard. Like everything else, I don't think anything is just black and white.
You know, I do believe that there is a desire to change, a sincere one. You know, a sincere acknowledgement that like, oh yes, okay, no, we are all the same here and we do need to have perspectives that are different. But then that difference comes and it's like, ooh, that's way too different. Can you just behave a certain way? You know, can you just not say the things
Can you not bring up that story when you're talking? Because that doesn't fit into the thing we're trying to say. Speaking of hard, I think it's important.
The hardest part about communicating with white women is that they still think we're the same. Somehow that just being women means that we're the same. And that is not true. And again, I think it's like intellectually we all know that. But practically, do we know that? Emotionally, do we know that? I don't think so. And so then the idea of our united spirit.
sort of energy and our united mission falls apart because we're still working inside of a society in which whiteness then is the superior. And so it's like the superiority of the white women experience is completely a giant as compared to mine. And so then mine doesn't really matter. So
the individual kind of struggles or other types of challenges that I have because there's so many other connection points in whiteness to white men that I simply don't have. Right. And so you would think, oh, well, look, I have the connection to women regardless of race. And then the white women have the connection to the men because of race.
So then they're connected here to the men and they're connected to me because of women. So they're connected on two points and I'm connected on one. I'm dependent on that one. And so I'm already at a disadvantage. And so just understanding that as a literal practical thing, and that's just the bottom of it, right? Everything else like builds on top of it. But that is the most difficult.
Actually getting the understanding, not just intellectually, but emotionally, that we're not on the same playing field is very, very difficult.
With the white men. That's right. With the power. You know, it's a practical one of that. Do you remember in the Obama administration? You probably read this where they said that the women band together to help. amplify each other's voices, right, in meetings and whatnot. I thought that was such a beautiful thing. And it has taken root in corporate.
Like, you can see it, you know, where women say, okay, we're getting in there. You have an idea. I'm going to support your idea. You know, it's like, and that's such a beautiful thing. But what is happening also is that in those situations, It is not just my voice that needs to be heard, but my perspective and my story, which sometimes needs to lead.
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