Brian Knappenberger
Appearances
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
I think that's a big part of the story of Vietnam. Vietnam arrives at a point in history where the technology of filmmaking and the technology of image making and recording devices is changing dramatically, even in the 11 years in which the United States is there. Suddenly you have handheld recording devices, handheld cameras. You have people who are able to get still cameras.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
The whole thing is... is technologically at a place in which you can capture some of the events that are going on.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
I mean, look, I think one of the people we interviewed in the series is Dan Rather. And I think that there's a couple of things going on. I mean, first of all, you... You do have this technology that's bringing this into people's living rooms in a way that's making it very, very visceral for people.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
That's making them connect and understand the war in a way that they hadn't before, or at least the brutality of it. Aber es gibt eine Generation von Journalisten, die ihre Zähne in Vietnam ausgeschnitten haben. Dan Rather ist einer davon. Er empfiehlt in seiner Interview die Rolle der Presse, die Ereignisse zu beurteilen und ehrlich zu informieren und die Wahrheit zur Macht zu sprechen.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Es gibt verschiedene Beispiele dazu. Der Moraly Safer-Beispiel ist total faszinierend und fühlt sich heute genauso relevant an, wie es damals war. Ich meine, diese Idee, dass Moraly Safer, der CBS-News-Korrespondent, herausfinden würde, dass die amerikanischen Truppen diese südvietnamesischen Villagen brennen, die Zippo-Lighter in die Fast-Huts nehmen.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
You have a population struggling with why we're even in Vietnam in the first place. What is the goal? I think in the very early days of Vietnam, back to the Cold War, obviously the discussion is so rooted in this Cold War thinking, that this stark idea that there's good and bad, that the nations of the world had to pick sides. Well, not only that, but
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Wenn man sich darüber nachdenkt, nach 11 Jahren von dieser Krieg, und der Unwahrheit des amerikanischen Publikums, ob das wirklich ein wirklicher Wunsch war oder nicht. Und sicherlich, wie wir es jetzt wissen, wenn man durch diese Serie geht, hört man diese Tapes. We list hundreds and hundreds of hours of these White House recordings from all three.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
The only three presidents to really record themselves after Nixon. That's not such a good idea. But listen to these.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
I'll say it, you don't have to. People in the series make the case that they just sort of forgot after, you know, they just sort of let it roll.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Ich glaube, das ist das, was ich gesagt habe. Wenn du diese Rekorde über die drei Präsidenten hörst, verstehst du in einer sehr kandiden Weise, wie sie sich über die Krieg fühlten. Und du kannst so einfach das mit dem, was gesagt wird, vergleichen. Oh, Brian, that completely
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Ja. Nun muss man sich fragen, und hier geht es zurück zu dem, was der Kanzler ein bisschen gesagt hat, aber ist das nicht das Legitimum der Vietnam-Ware, die wir fühlen? Diese Lektionen, die gelernt oder nicht gelernt wurden? Wenn man sich ein Event wie den 6. Januar anschaut, ist es ein riesengroßes Niveau von Menschen, die den Kapitol gestorben haben, die Militärveteranen waren.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Das ist eine hohe Anzahl von Menschen. Ich wurde von Irak und Afghanistan, aber auch aus Vietnam überrascht. Manche Leute fliegen die jetzt defunkte Flagge von Süd-Vietnam an, am 6. Januar, als die Menschen in der Kapitale stürzten. Sobald man das bedeutet, denke ich, dass es sehr wahr ist, dass wir noch die Schatten von Vietnam fühlen.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Well, it's not something that makes sense, I think. It's not something that I heard a lot of people talking about.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Ja, ich denke, dass, du weißt, da sind die Veteranen, wenn sie zurückgekommen sind, du weißt, es war ein sehr, sehr schwieriges Zeitpunkt. Und du weißt, offensichtlich hat es viel gemacht. Es wurde viel Arbeit gemacht, um die Erfahrung der Veteranen zu verstehen, als sie zurückkamen aus Vietnam. Du weißt, sogar mein Vater hat gesagt, dass er die Art von Babykiller erlebt hat.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
where people were kind of, who were maybe rightly or had legitimate concerns about whether or not we should be in Vietnam, may have been protesting it, but also took out a lot of that anger on people that were enlisted, that either enlisted or were drafted, and these are people that we asked as a country to go to war.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Yeah. You get a lot of this when you talk to Vietnam veterans today, obviously. They did this sense that the Vietnam mission felt very murky to them. They didn't quite understand why they were there. They were losing friends. And that so many of them kind of turned to Die Marihuana, die Heroin waren natürlich sehr plänevoll. Viele Leute kamen zurück mit diesen Addiktionen.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Wir haben mit einigen Männern gesprochen, die das gemacht haben, als sie zurückgekommen sind. Das kombiniert mit der die Art von Schmerzen, die einige von ihnen für den Krieg richteten, und eine Verlängerung von ihrer Arbeit, als sie zurückgekommen sind, hat viele Probleme für die Menschen verursacht.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Und natürlich wissen wir, dass die Studierenden, durch viele tolle Arbeit von vielen tollen Leuten, die Diagnose von PTSD verursacht haben, die aus dem Vietnamskrieg kommt.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Well, we tried to do both of those things justice. You know, one of the, we did focus quite a bit on presidents and decisions of administrations and how those ripple effects affected real people on the ground. But, you know, I think we also tried to get just a range of voices in this as well. So, you know, so often the events of the of this war told from the American perspective only.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
So, you know, in Vietnam, this was a civil war as much as anything else. And so, you know, the understanding of these events can't be separated from the fact that there are these two different parts of the country with very different visions for what their future might look like.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Also haben wir mit Vietcong gesprochen, natürlich haben wir mit Leuten aus dem Süden gesprochen, wir haben mit Leuten gesprochen, die für den Norden kämpften, um so viele Perspektiven zu bekommen, wie wir können.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja, ja.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Wow, that's a great question. Obviously the Vietnam War itself opened up wounds in Cambodia and other things that took a very long time in order to play out. And lots of people over the years after the fall of Saigon still tried to escape and tried to leave Vietnam and tried to People that felt persecuted, people that were in re-education camps. This war lasted a very long time for those people.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
And of course, a lot of people from the South became refugees in the United States. And the war, I mean, if you talk to them, a lot of them are in the series, if you talk to them, it's still very, very raw for them as well. So it's a tough question to answer. I think, you know, the... Vietnam hat sich ökonomisch gut verhalten.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Es hat sich mit einem Teil ihres Vergangenheits in vielen Fällen verabschiedet. Ich denke, es gab schon einige Veränderungen mit Trump und Tarifen und so weiter. Aber es war ein sehr, sehr guter Partner. Sie haben sehr gut mit den Vereinigten Staaten gearbeitet. to look for remains of soldiers that were missing over the years. And so that relationship has improved significantly.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
But in the hearts of people, especially people who left their homeland, this war is still very much kind of raw for them still. Many of them left twice.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Yeah, I don't know what you make of that.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
I think it points directly to the complicated relationship and nature that we have with this war and how much it really exposed and how much we're still kind of dealing with it. It's not an easy war to think about. It's not an easy war to try to understand the impact and the legacy that it has had on us. But you're absolutely right, of course.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
I mean, World War II gave us heroes that became presidents.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Well, for a half beat when you were asking that question, I thought you were going to talk about the VA. The VA has been a source of controversy.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
It's looking like it's getting good here. I don't know the stats, but this is not...
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
There are these rumors that 80,000 people might be getting fired from the VA. This is devastating.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Yeah, I think it's important. I like the idea of, you know, your point about Kerry and McCain being in the Senate and, you know, having people that understand wars that have been through this, that aren't glorifying, you know, the military.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Yeah, this is the great human drama as it marches on, right? I think that Vietnam is important, the lessons of Vietnam are important to keep alive. You know, we tell these stories about what we've been through and hopefully history... plays the role of helping us be better educated about the decisions that we'll be facing in 25 years.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
And there are lots of decisions and there are lots of lessons to be learned from Vietnam. I mean, really, these military lessons are profound. And Vietnam forced this incredible reckoning with our role in the world. Who are we? What sorts of interventions should we use our military to intervene in? Where is it important to take a stand?
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
What are all the corrupting factors that might play into those decisions? This is something that we really need to understand. We learned lessons from Vietnam. But as I think what we've been saying here, Some of those lessons were largely ignored, leading to similar repeat disasters in Afghanistan and Iraq. So the storytelling and the history, history is important, right?
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Nothing is really the past. Well, I found it interesting.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Ich hatte eine sehr ähnliche Erfahrung mit dir. Mein Vater war in Vietnam, als ich geboren wurde. Und während meiner frühen Kindheit wollte ich zusammenarbeiten, was diese Kriege betrifft und was es bedeutet. Und ich denke, dass die Erstellung dieser Serie You know, it's really about a belief that the Vietnam War had this lasting impact on us.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
And that's an impact that we're very much still feeling. That the America that existed before the United States engaged militarily in Vietnam was just a radically different country than the America that emerged after our troops came home. And that America, that new America... you know, really contain the roots of a lot of what plagues our society today or is a part of our society today.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Widespread alienation, deep cynicism, this profound distrust in government. It seemed to show a kind of breakdown in civic institutions. And it made us question our role in the world. You know, how should the US intervene militarily in international conflicts?
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Yeah, and I think the Nixon example is interesting. I mean, you get into these deep, you know, divisions that it exposes in America. And those lessons of, you know, here's a president found to be backing a break-in at the offices of a political opponent, you know, actively lying to the American people.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
This imperial president who said things like, if the president does it, then it's not illegal, right? He resigns in disgrace before he's impeached. But, you know, you can't help but draw parallels to our current political environment.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Yeah, I think it's, you know, I've heard so much about it and I think it does go back to my father serving there. I think, you know, hearing stories slowly over the years. He was clearly somebody who fit into that category of not really wanting to talk about it too much. It would come out in these very sort of Es war einfach so dramatisch, als würde er mir eine Geschichte erzählen oder so etwas.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Und du bist in diesem, du bist fast ein Verlust, ein Geheimnis. Was ist passiert? Warum ist es so viel Schmerz noch für verschiedene Menschen in Vietnam, als du anfängst, mit anderen Menschen zu sprechen? Warum ist es so viel Ungewissheit darüber? Und auch nur, was ist passiert? Was sind die Events der Krieg? Das ist etwas, was ich glaube, dass die meisten nicht wirklich wissen.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Und
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Ja, absolut. Ich meine, das war... Und warum kreiert die Vietnamkriege so tiefe Gefühle in allen? Sie personalisieren es, richtig? Sie personalisieren es so viel. Ich denke, es ist, weil die Menschen, die Verluste wie dein Vater erlebt haben, das hat die Leute persönlich getroffen, mit Leuten, die sie kannten, Freunden, Brüdern. Aber es war auch etwas, was größer war, richtig?
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Wer sind wir als Land? Es gab etwas über die Vietnamkriege. die unsere Identität verändert hat und wie wir mit der Welt verabschiedet sind und unsere Präsenz und unsere Leidenschaft in der Welt. Und das ist die Sache, mit der die Leute einen schwierigen Zeitraum haben, mit der sie kämpfen und seitdem versucht haben, diese Fragen zu beantworten. Ich denke, es sind beide Dinge.
The Chuck ToddCast
Why Vietnam Still HAUNTS American Politics: Inside Netflix’s 'Turning Point' | Chuck Todd
Es ist persönlich, aber es ist auch, wer sind wir als Land? Genau.