Brian Koppelman

And so I had all these experiences, Michael, where I would

Tracy would perform and an expert from a New York record company or an LA record company would come that we'd arranged to come up there and the guy would be crying during the concert and say, can I, you know, she's playing for 200 people and say, can I meet her?

And then I'd walk the guy back to his car and he would say, you understand, we can't sign her to like a record deal.

Even after all that.

And I would say, dude, your shirt's covered with your snot and tears.

And you're just a person.

And they go, oh, you don't know how it works.

They're a promotion.

People have to go to radio stations.

And she's demographically.

And I was like, I don't even know what that word means.

I mean, I did.

But I was like, what?

did you not just hear those songs?

And then every step of the way, I saw these experts be wrong and enormously wrong, right?

Wrong in a way that 35 years later or more, you know, she has another number one record again.

She still has millions and millions and millions and millions of listens a year.

But it's her, you know, this is the thing, that story often, when someone's talking to me,

but becomes a story about, about me.

The story is about Tracy, you know, and it was always about Tracy for me.