Brittany Luce

I remember sitting in my living room, well, my parents' living room, watching Oprah with my mom.

And there was this conversation about DL men.

That's men on the down low, meaning that they are discreet or secretive about having sex with other men.

That was 2004, but now it's 2026.

And if you open up TikTok right now, you'll hear the same thing.

The DL man is a recurring character in Black culture.

Someone who comes up in messy story times as a cautionary tale or even as a reason to explain away bad behavior from straight men.

If he beats on women, I promise you he's DL.

So I'm trying to understand, what is it about our culture, and maybe this moment specifically, that has us so obsessed with the dealings of DL men?

Specifically at a time when people are being surveilled and scrutinized for their sexual behavior.

To find out, I'm joined by Dr. Jeffrey McCune, author of Sexual Discretion, Black Masculinity and the Politics of Passing.

And Kai Wright, a journalist and host for The Guardian, who has been writing about sexual politics for the last 30 years.

I am so happy to have you both.

Hello, hello.

I'm Brittany Luce, and you're listening to It's Been a Minute from NPR, a show about what's going on in culture and why it doesn't happen by accident.

Today, we're going to talk about men on the down low.

So who are the first people using this term on the down low, and what kind of person were they describing?

Hello.

Yes.

Like if you're getting information you weren't supposed to have, maybe if someone were to buy books.