Caitlin Dickerson

But that approach was to minimize the kinds of chaos that we're seeing ICE really invite now.

So I've talked to so many current and former ICE officials who are watching this happen, and they're really bewildered because it's as if ICE is now going against all of its former training.

to make arrests as dramatic as possible, to do them in the streets, in front of the general public, kind of inviting conflicts that then lead to protesting and to escalations.

And they're also filming a lot of these violent clashes, making them as dramatic as possible and

prioritizing that over safety.

So it's really just such a significant change.

It's hard to understate.

And part of it, I think, is because they're trying to, and I'm sure we'll get into this, really spread a certain level of fear that's intended to encourage people to leave the country on their own so that they don't have to make as many arrests.

You know, they want to encourage self-deportation.

So it's absolutely the case that the look and feel of ICE is really different right now.

I think people are right to feel that way.

It's

The massive increase in boots on the ground, it's the tactics that are being used, it's the locations that arrests are taking place.

Historically, ICE had a policy that made courthouses, schools, and hospitals off limits for immigration enforcement for the same reason, to prioritize safety.

That policy is now gone, and I think both for purposes of efficiency and getting as many deportations done as possible, but also playing into the drama, now you see ICE very frequently in those places.

When it comes to the former law enforcement officials, what they make of the propaganda is grave concern because they feel like it's taking away from the legitimacy of this agency.

I mean, ICE, people will tell you, has always kind of been the redheaded stepchild of federal law enforcement.

It's a less prestigious job.

It's easier to get into than other federal law enforcement agencies, and it's always politicized.

And so there was this real emphasis to...