Caitlin Dickerson

And so it makes sense that coming out of the pandemic with travel restrictions lifting abroad and with so many other countries suffering more than they were previously, that there was a huge pent-up demand that contributed to the increase in people who crossed the border under the Biden administration.

You know, you had millions of people leave Venezuela because of falling apart within that country and the regime there and the economy and public safety.

You know, political dissidents were being jailed and killed, etc.,

And so at a certain point, everybody who was able to leave Venezuela has left Venezuela.

And so I think there can be a real problem with just taking a slice of a moment in time and saying, you know, the Biden administration had record-breaking immigration and leaving it at that to suggest that the only factors that had to do with the Biden administration and their policies were at fault for these really high numbers.

And it's definitely having an impact.

So getting to the other side of the conversation now, I completely agree with you.

And I think there are a couple of things going on here.

Policy-wise, Trump is sort of riding the wave of legal restrictions to asylum that the Biden administration put into place.

So those numbers dropped precipitously even before the election.

And I think it's undeniable that the Trump administration is benefiting in terms of these low numbers from the public messaging campaign that they have going on right now.

I mean, there's this longstanding debate about whether deterrence works, whether imposing consequences, legal consequences, putting people into jail or deporting them can, in a significant way, decrease the number of people crossing the border.

I think that what the Trump administration is doing is going far beyond deterrence, right?

They're spreading this message of fear internationally and, frankly, conveying an image of the United States that doesn't make it look like the type of place that people want to seek refuge.

You know, the rule of law is a huge part of what makes the United States the most attractive country in the world for migration.

And when you turn on the news and you look at what's happening in the United States right now, it doesn't look like a place where the rule of law is still in effect or where the country is necessarily free to participate in basic democratic freedoms like voting and protesting.

There's a lot of violence in the streets right now.

And so I think that is having a significant impact on the number of people who are crossing the border.

You're not going to seek safety in a place that doesn't look very safe.

Exactly.