Carl Turner

I get all of that.

But to Emily's question, look, we don't know where he stands on welfare, on defence, on education, on health, on myriad topics.

And you are sitting here and saying, no need for a contest.

It'll all become clear at some point.

I mean, don't you need to be... You've talked a lot about the Parliamentary Labour Party in this interview.

What about the people in this country?

Don't they have a right to know who this bloke who's just become an MP and is suddenly going to be changing the direction of the country?

Carl Turner, can we just sum this up as, yeah, we're all hypocrites, but that's politics.

Just outrageous.

Can you understand why the public might not have a very high opinion of politics and politicians?

Just one other thing before we let you go.

Do you know whether Andy Burnham has spoken to Keir Starmer?

Or Keir Starmer has spoken to Andy Burnham?

I'm told that he's not.

Going back to where we started the podcast about whether the media has been unfair to Keir Starmer.

I think that the treatment of Nigel Farage and this five million quid he got given.

I think that any other political leader, the heavens would have opened and they haven't really opened over Farage.

Although today, after a few weeks of lying low and seemingly not being as high profile as he once was, Nigel Farage was out doing a round of the interview studios.

And this was him with our own Nick Ferrari on LBC.

Also, hasn't he just muddied the waters enormously?