Carrington Clarke

And yet it appears that those people who've come through Australian universities aren't doing as well in the workforce as, say, bringing someone over on a skilled visa to start off with if they've studied overseas.

So how can we understand this?

Because

As you say, you would think if you've come here, you've studied in an Australian university.

We have good universities, world-class universities.

They've spent time within the Australian environment.

They've learned some of those cultural norms, et cetera.

Why are they doing worse?

So let's talk through that, the points system when it comes to getting a working visa in Australia.

You talk about you get extra points for going to a regional area by doing English tests.

How problematic is that system?

And the design of the points system was supposed to kind of have a system in place that helped us get the migrants that were most likely to do well, right?

Why is it failing?

There's obviously been a debate as well about whether or not part of what universities have been selling

is not just about education, but it's a pathway to visas.

Did your research go into that?

And do you have a firm view on whether or not that is the case?

And is that a good or a bad thing?

Okay, so you did look at potential or you've been thinking about potential solutions to this problem.

If it is the case that students studying in Australia aren't doing as well as people studying overseas and you're trying to kind of unpick that relationship, I guess, regarding migration and the higher education system, what would you do to change the way that visas, working visas, are allocated in order to ensure that you're getting the right migrants when you're looking at kind of economic prosperity?