Cas Holman

It's pleasurable.

Yeah, the ones I define early in the book are play types that I've used and I think are not universally, there's different versions of them, but that are used to understand and observe children's play.

But they aren't called children's play types, they're just kind of play types because play most often is associated with children and the people who work with play are usually working with children.

And so I had been using these play types.

So things like rough and tumble play, locomotor play, creative play, which is kind of building things, pretend play, which is kind of performing or going into other worlds.

And yeah, obviously you all take part in children's play types.

That was probably like social play.

Deep play is one that I think really challenges the definition and the idea of play for a lot of people.

Right.

Because play doesn't always look like big gestures of joy and celebration.

Because in order to play, we kind of have to trust either our environment

ourselves or the world around us and the people we're with, we become really vulnerable.

And so children, if they're in deep play, are touching on things that are something they have to work out.

Maybe it's something difficult in their household that's going on and they're trying to, through play, understand it or maybe even heal from it.

Yeah.

And how can you understand or get through your fears if you don't confront them?

And it's safest and fun and enjoyable to confront them in play.

crows can fly.

Yeah, exactly.

So that's just a novel experience for them.