Charli XCX

Right.

He's one of them.

an idiot dodo who's like trying to make those decisions for you like collaboration is important for sure with people who you trust yeah it's and but it's funny it's like the film i think it's like kind of talking about that like temptation to like lean into somebody who is really doesn't get you right you know they don't get you but they're offering you they're saying they can offer you this like whole other world right you know like this whole other level of

success or whatever and like I in the past have definitely been tempted by that more recently I have not like even when I made Brat when I made it I was like this is gonna flop and I'm gonna get dropped but that's fine like that's how I went in I had a huge vision for it but I was like and if it flops because I am really making this for me only I'm at peace with it because this is exactly the record I want to make like my vision was not you have to make it for yourself you can't make it for other people it's just not gonna reach

exactly and I think you know this the film is like kind of an alternate reality if I had made like other choices instead of following my instinct but yeah it is funny it's like I guess his character is very much it's about like

he's kind of someone who he thinks like the best version of something is like the biggest, most accessible version.

That's what he defines as like success and, uh, art, you know?

Um, and I think the character that he kind of like opposes the most, um,

is this character called Celeste, who's played by Hayley Gates.

She's amazing, right?

Yes, get in there.

Yeah, and she's kind of like approaching things from the total opposite, which is more the stance that I kind of take in real life of, you know, making work that...

is for yourself perhaps like serves a niche of people who truly get it and care about it and doing what feels kind of truthful or something yeah yeah did you have like did you always feel that from the beginning or do you have you felt like you've like grown into it

What, into, like, trusting myself?

Yes, yes.

Oh, my God, 100% grown into it.

Like, I think different people I've met along the way have really helped me, like, figure that out and, like, learn that and give me confidence.

I mean, you must feel the same, right?

Wait, is that...

I have, this is one of my favorite conversations.