Chris Duffy

Or they've read your book and they're thinking about their own relationship to work differently to their job.

Yeah.

What are three things that someone should do to start to reevaluate the way that they think about work in general and their own relationship to it?

We're going to take a quick break while I do another part of my job, which is to play you some ads.

We'll be right back.

And we are back.

We're talking with Sarah Jaffe, author of Work Won't Love You Back and From the Ashes.

You talk in From the Ashes about grief, both personal, professional, and societal.

I think that a lot of us of a certain age feel like a form of grief or sadness or regret at not being able to have this kind of collective experience that it seems like existed in the past.

My dad worked for the Port Authority.

And I wouldn't say that he was ever like, you know what my passion is, is like helping manage toll collectors.

Like I think he would.

But the idea that he could like come in and do a job and have a pension at the end of his career and he would know that he was taken care of.

And he took a lot of pride in doing a job well and being a good steward of public funds.

That for me and for certainly for people who are younger than me, the idea that you would be at one job for 30 years is so the exception and not the rule.

Yeah, New York and New Jersey.

Yeah, New York and New Jersey.

Right.

So there's also this idea that we have tried efficiency and productivity.

I think a really new idea I got from From the Ashes was the way that grief works in our personal life.