Chris Duffy

And so... Yeah, these are all the same first things that my mom says to me as well.

Yes.

It's interesting to think about all the ways in which

visual identity, the way that we look to other people, that things can go from being invisible to us, something we've never noticed or thought about, certainly never been insecure about, to all of a sudden being hyper aware of.

You talk about how in Korea, you all of a sudden became very aware of the fact that you have freckles.

In some ways, when you go to another country and when you're living in another culture, it lets you see things with fresh eyes, including yourself.

The idea that in the U.S.

there is a premium that is paid to people who are visually attractive, right?

That life is easier, that it's easier to get a job, that people treat you better, that people view you as more competent or desirable or morally good.

Life is easier if people think you look good.

You know, reading the book and thinking about all of the work, the mental work, the actual time and labor, and then the cost that goes into making oneself try to meet these kind of, in some ways, unattainable beauty standards.

It's just exhausting.

How do we handle like wanting to change this on the one hand and also wanting to recognize the reality that it can make us more successful on the other?

How do we not buy in, but also not burn out?

To me, one of the great parts of young kids is that they also can like call out some kind of profound things.

And so in the book, you describe a conversation that your two oldest daughters had where one of them says, mom says that it's not important to be pretty, that the most important thing is to be clever.

And then your older daughter says, yeah, but that's just because mom's already pretty.

I wonder what your oldest daughter would say if you're like, I'm opting out.

And she's like, yeah, you get to opt out, right?

There's a privilege.